Equality is a principle that is constantly being tested to destruction. Harriet Harman’s proposed Equality Bill is a startling case in point. She is right to insist on equal pay for equal work; that is a principle that nearly every woman in the country must believe in passionately, and by now most men as well. It is clearly wrong to pay one person less than another for the same work, simply because of her sex (or indeed his colour or age). It is and ought to be illegal.
However, this principle soon grows into much more ambitious and more nebulous ideas about equality at work, including the dubious concept of equal representation – equality not just by person but by group. These ideas, as Harman’s bill clearly shows, lead not only towards an explosion of bureaucracy and cost, but also towards injustice and inequality – towards the destruction of the very principle.
Harman proposes to replace a “thicket of legislation” against various different kinds of discrimination with a single duty of equality covering everything from race and gender, through religion and belief to sexual preference and age. That seems reasonable, and it is true that despite the Equal Pay Act of 1970 there are still persistent, incontrovertible inequalities at work. There are some disgraceful cases both at the top and the bottom of the market. Women employees in local authorities are in some cases still being paid less than men for comparable semi-skilled jobs, and employment tribunals regularly expose huge gender differences in City high-flyers’ pay.
What’s more, the gender pay gap – these weighty subjects create horrible expressions – still appears to be marked in government itself. According to civil service number crunchers’ figures for 2006, it was 26% in the Treasury, 21% in the transport department, 17% in Defra, 16% in the culture department and 7% in the work and pensions department. (However, in the government equalities office, women were paid 4% more than men; do not smile.) Harman explained with passion on the Today programme that a part-time woman worker is paid 40% less than her full-time male equivalent. “Do we think she is 40% less intelligent, less committed, less hardworking, less qualified? It’s not the case. It’s entrenched discrimination.”
Her plan, or part of it, is to allow employers to discriminate in favour of women and ethnic minorities, against equally qualified white men. She has other inflammatory suggestions, such as forcing public sector employers (and “encouraging” private ones) to reveal what they pay people, and explain what they are doing to close the gender gap, and to provide opportunities for ethnic minorities and disabled people. One could argue about all that – I’m not sure I am entirely opposed to employers revealing what they pay their employees, though the unintended consequences would no doubt be awesome.
These issues, though important, are secondary. What really matters is that we have a minister who is prepared, with the full backing of a Labour government, to enshrine in law, in the name of equality, the principle of institutionalised inequality against men. Employers will be free (and, it seems, pressed, by other provisions of this bill) to take positive action to recruit more women and ethnic minorities, to achieve what they have learnt to assume would be a “better balance” within their companies.
White men are no longer to be equal to everyone else; they will lose their rights in employment tribunals (unless they are beyond retirement age, when they may possibly regain them); they are to pay for the sins of their fathers (or rather for the sins of their fathers’ bosses) against working women and against ethnic minorities by being unjustly treated in their turn. And Harman is prepared to do this terrible thing on the basis, merely, of unexamined assumptions about the facts.
For it is an unexamined assumption that equality must be connected with representation. Why do people so often assume equality for women – in, say, nuclear physics or welding or the police force – must mean the representation of women in equal numbers in those fields? If a certain percentage of policewomen are not Muslims or Hasidic Jews, does that of itself mean they have been discriminated against? Clearly not. And why do people assume that women earning less over a lifetime, and being underrepresented in senior posts, must of itself mean they were discriminated against?
Both assumptions are irrational. Women and men are different, and make different choices. We still understand little about such things, but are beginning to recognise that women often choose to work less, or less regularly, or with less responsibility than one would have predicted on their abilities alone. Many have other priorities.
We are also recognising that across a population women’s and men’s abilities vary; you would expect women to be underrepresented in quantum mechanics or navigation; though individual women may excel in these fields, women in general are unlikely to do so, for innate reasons. And vice versa with the low visibility of men in some fields.
The same is true of pay. The figures Harman has been discussing look depressing, but one ought not to rush into any assumptions about them. There are many explanations for women’s lower earnings besides unfair exploitation, and while any one case might be blatantly unjust – and employment tribunals exist to redress such inequalities – again it ain’t necessarily so. In some circumstances women may earn less than men for reasons that are not inherently unjust.
Women move in and out of jobs more. In devoting time to their families, they lose time at work to develop skills, not to mention experience and contacts, and in many careers that makes them less valuable as employees, with the result that in an equal market they might well earn less.
The only occupations to which it doesn’t much apply involve unskilled and semi-skilled work. For this reason it ought to be possible to ensure equal pay in this sector. It is a shameful thing that the long march towards equality for women has been forced into a dead end of institutionalised inequality for men.
minette.marrin@sunday-times.co.uk
As a middle aged white male(aged 51), I was made redundant on the basis of age and have been rejected for many jobs on that basis also. This would not happen to a black female Muslim woman who has 3 whole systems to take up her case in a tribunal or court case based on discrimination.
Steve, London, UK
When the "career" of being a homemaker and a mother is recognized as a "profession" requiring honed management skills, when women are not considered unemployed and out-of-work as they successfully manage their households and children, it will be realized that they have developed their skills.
Debra Johnson, Concord, NH, USA
Equality = even terms. Anyting else is discrimination, which is what this proposition amounts to. Simply require that all interviews are recorded on audio / video. This will allow any challenge to be balanced with the paper credentials in a review should there be a case. This "solution" is puerile.
Richard, Guildofrd, Surrey
Women live four or five years longer than men. Should not the health service have a massive investment to allow men to catch up? Just imagine the demonstrations that would be mounted if it were the other way around.
Fred, Horsham, England
It seems there are a minority of women who want to collectively punish a large group of men. They think this is 'justice'.
Remind me why todays feminists are intellectually brain dead?
Kash, London,
Have always known this Government hates white, straight young men. It's nice to have it confirmed by statute.
Dan D, London,
"Oh, enough hysteria. Some of the misogyny here is quite vile."
Nigel, as a supposed man I fail to see how you can claim this article is anything but fact. When you fail to get a job against a woman and are not allowed to appeal due to this bill you'll doubtless wish you too had been 'misogynistic'
Ben Hajduk, London, England
John from York got it absolutely right!
Heini, Northampton, UK
Oh, enough hysteria. Some of the misogyny here is quite vile.
Nigel C, Pershore, UK
Nice one Harriet, a gift to the BNP.
jasper, chelmsford,
Positive discrimination doesn't exist as discrimination can never be positive in any form.
However, I do plan to discriminate against Labour at the next election by voting for someone else.
dc, doncaster, banana republic
Positive discrimination only enforces prejudice in the long term.
I see fast tracked women (Harman) and men (black and asian policemen) and wonder if they could really compete on a level playing.
I am a member of last minority: one of the guys all the well intentioned positive discrimination hits.
Dave, Selby, UK
Oh dear, apart from sorting out the economy, the Tories are going to have a vast amount of stupid legislation to unravel when they gain power.
Pushkin, Durham, UK
This Government has lost the plot, I will be voting Tory for the first time in my life at the next election, infact the public should insist on having an election now and get this shambolic lot out!
Sean, St Helens,
I totally agree with Harriett Sermon, we should have more Female Road Sweepers, Sewage workers, Road workers, Builders, BinWomen, etc. and of course, more male nurses, Social Workers, Teachers, Child minders. Fair equality for everyone.
Tony, Watford,
So let me get this straight: HR departments, predominantly staffed by women, are complicit in a male conspiracy to underpay other women? Why are the sisters not whistle-blowing? Is it perhaps because there is no conspiracy, and people get what they negotiate?
David, Dundee, UK
Nobody does the same work as anybody else. Even when jobs are the same on paper, some people are good at their job and others cannot be bothered. What is really important is that that difference is not very small so you could ignore it - it is 200%, 300%, 400%, more even.
Tim, London,
This is coming from a Nigerian male studying for a MSc here in UK - Does merit not matter anymore? I thought the idea was for the best to rise to the top naturally. Ask Obama or Clinton, they were not handed thier successes on a gold - platter.
Mo, Essex, UK
i know lets follow the communists and play everyone (including our fat cat mps)exactly the same, no matter what job, lets all go paint ourselves green, lets all with scientific engineering make ourselves look identical- now there is equality!
sally, leeds,
iam white british and i feel that i should apply to put myself on the list of endangered whites; terminated by liberal left-wing lawyers. ps iam thinking of changing my name to the black one- then i might be safe for a while.
its time we got the present butch of labour - brain dead Mps removed.
adrian bourne, worcester, worcestershire
It is not at all "wrong" to pay a woman less IF SHE CAN DO THE JOB AND WILL TAKE THE JOB FOR LESS -- rather, it is an economic savings coup for the employer and makes such women more competitive in the marketplace. Providing more or charging less is called good business, unknown in government.
B. P. Dalcher, Hitchin, Herts
Just wait when white men finally get angry enough there won't be enough jails to imprison them all in.
Absolute Marxist guff. If Dave doesn't come to power and simply pass one piece of legislation to repeal all this Labour excremental law making he is a total numpty.
Tony , Worthing ,
"It is clearly wrong to pay one person less than another for the same work".
Then why is it right to pay one person £1 million a year for doing far less work than another who earns £12,000 a year?
Tom Welsh, Basingstoke,
In the week that we discover britons are the most indebted in the history of civilization it appears the solution is spend lots of resources hiring tribunals to equalize pay of those too lazy to search for a better paying job.
larry, manchester,
White American women fell for this years ago. It was all the virtuous "ethnic minorities" and white women pitted against the evil white men. Now, 30 years later, we white women are also the target of anti-white racism, just like our men. "Diversity" is just NewSpeak for "get whitey."
MaryJ, San Francisco, USA
Women and men make different choices with their careers - I can only assume Harman is to force primary schools to recruit more male teachers, and introduce initiatives for male secretaries and receptionists. And expect a new generation of bulky female labourers at construction sites...
Jonathan, Caerphilly, UK
Most interesting article.You might be aware that in India there is a Women's Reservation Bill peding to be passed by the male dominated Parliament for ages and everytime it is slated to be discussed, male members (irrespective of political parties) create a ruckus in Parliament & it again to square1
Pritam Sinha, New Delhi, India
Having been a working woman in a man's world I know the bias against women, when I complained to a boss I was told women had equal opportunity, as long as they were better. I would like to have a world where it didn't matter what your gender, creed or colour was, but this time has not yet arrived.
Liz, Maidenhead, UK
Harriet has a bee in her bonnet and that is how do I perpetuate my cushy job. Get the women to vote for me. Forget about harping on equality, racism and discrimination but Promote respect .Respect for yourself, respect for your wife / husband/partner, respect for your parents and respect for others
geert, cape town, south africa
Labour want to create a mediocracy and not a meritoracy. Remind of Russia under the communists. Already men have no right of anonimity when accussed of rape and look at the damage that has done. Who was the author Harman. I will not be voting Labour while this madness exists in the party.
steve tea, manchester, cheshire
As an English white male, I have been discriminated against for years by official bodies. EG: Wife and I started our own business. She got a 1k grant, I could not. Because she is seen as a disadvantaged female! Reverse discrimination is not normally seen, white males are now a disadvantaged minority.
Barry, Walsall, England
Harriet Harman’s proposals on equality is the final straw that will see me breaking my Labour voting habits of a lifetime at the next General election. As for Davids contribution as regards teachers I would say 90% are female. In our school we have about 60 female staff and 2 male.
Sandra P, Wolverhampton,
I think this is fair enough. As a general rule "gainful" employment seems to be the reserve of middle class white men in today's Britain.
Labour may be what ever they are but they certainly arent racist to the same degree as the opposition is.
Haseeb, London, UK
some pigs are more equal than other pigs.
and white male pigs (boars) are far less equal than all all ALL other pigs.
peter jones, moscow, russia
Equality is about reward based on merit. Positive discrimination actually acts against the principles of equality when that right is removed for one person or group of people, simply due to a physical characteristic. Should we stop recruiting female nurses until 50% are male? Educate don't legislate
Kevin, Birmingham,
These cuckoos are doing what cuckoos do; destroyng their host before they fly the nest fat and healthy..
Who will vote Labour at the next election?
Simon, Loughborough,
So then what about the demographics? Does the UK suddenly comprise of equal amounts of all ethnic groups?
No? well I think this should be rectified! We should ensure that the UK is totally generic with perfectly flat demographics in every single hamlet, village, town and city!
Just kidding Harriet
J C, Chelsea, London
Harriet Harman should get her boss to put his own house in order before she start's lecturing the rest of us. There isn't equal representation in the Cabinet. How far does this stupidity have to go, does every company need to have an equal representation of members of the Jedi or Klingon religions?
Bruce Mcaaw, Grantham,
Women of equal responsibility and abilty must be paid as their male counterparts, but women are their own worst enemy. Women with combat positions in the US navy mostly got pregnant on the eve of the first Gulf War.
Ai Rui Sheng, Shanghai, China
I hereby declare Harriet Harman subject to citizens' arrest on charges of incitement to racist, sexist, class hatred and discrimination against the white, working class, male community.
Any attempt by Harman (or others involved) to resist arrest may lead to further charges.
Action this day.
Terry, London, UK
Do you have men's hospitals in the UK. How many shelters for men who separated from their chuildren and homes?
Dr Ai, Guilin, China
" a PART-TIME woman worker is paid 40% less than her FULL-TIME male equivalent."
Of course a part time worker earns less than a full time worker, they tend to do half the hours for one thing. Nobody ever picks up on that little twist comparing part time to full time is a nonsense whatever the gender
M Baxter, Manchester, United Kingdom
We just need to ask both sexes at an interview about their childcare arrangements and time off for school plays. That would level the playing field AND suggest to all that children need both parents.
John, York, UK
I'm all for equality but the quote- 'white male' has been taking a bit of a bashing over the last few years regarding his rights to employment and social/commercial equality. Can a white male join the MET/Local/Central Government? Where will he sit in the queue for social housing? Not equality!
StuartR, Reading, UK
For an intelligent analysis of pay in the workplace, people would be well advised to read "Why Men Earn More" by Warren Farrell, a book which challenges many of the fundamental assumptions of Harriet Harman and her supporters.
Jordan Eakwall, London, UK
We were told mass uncontrolled immigration was beneficial and had no impact on the native British population. Yet public bodies such as the police already have 'positive action' policies that exclude white males. Perhaps white males should just vote for the far right to protect their rights!
slade wallis, Retford, Great Britain (not EU)
As an unmarried white male with no kids,I am already disadvantaged.Women with kids get first pick of the holidays-so I ended up working Xmas/New Year 5 years in a row, and not had my Bday off in years cos it's during midterm.Dare complain and I'd be publicly branded a woman-hater!Equality my derrier
C Campbell, Glasgow, scotland
Here's a dictum Ms Harman might contemplate - I can't find the source of the original so you must make do with my own version: 'Equality of outcome cannot be compelled; equality of opportunity must not be denied'.
David Kirwan, Sale, Cheshire
Oh stop belly-aching. The white british male should count himself lucky legislation like this hasn't come in already. Suck it up, us women have had to do it for years. Peasants, the lot of you.
jane, london, uk
This will denigrate the very people the bill claims to support.
People will think you only got the job because you are a woman or black. Not because you were the best person for the job. It is highly insulting to all the women and black people who got where they are due to sheer hard work.
Paul, Brighton, uk
Check the gender ratio in your local council, 75% women I bet. Local government HR guaranteed an interview if disabled or an ethnic minority or gay.
So armed with two degrees plus 4 years experience you will still have to appear tanned, limp and be dishonest.
Best person is never a white guy.
Rod, Huntingdon, UK
All positions of employment should be based on Merit alone,
there should be no other criteria.
It's virtually impossible now for an Englishman to find employment in England, Nepotism is rapidly destroying this once wonderful country, with 'New Labour' hell bent on creating chaos and civil strife.
Clive Burghard, LANCING, ENGLAND
What I find worrying is that employers may use this to create a female workforce in order to reduce their overall wages bill, as women are often prepared to work for less. No male employees and you can forget equal pay for women.
Mark Gallon, Cannock, England
Albert Hall Kettering.
'She'll be gone by the next election.'
For the survival of what remains of our country, I hope to God they'll ALL be gone by then..
If they aren't, we'll soon become a third rate banana republic, and we'll deserve it.
Let's hear it. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK.
E O
Eileen O'Conor, Cordoba, Spain
If you look at the case of Abigail Howarth you will see that this does not apply to white British men, it only applies to white Englishmen.
The Irish, Scots and Welsh are considered ethnic minorities.
Will the turkey's vote for Christmas?
bob, London, England
Wont this just end up the same way as the wimbledon championships? Women and Men get paid the same yet Women are only allowed to goto three sets and Men have to go to 5.
Christopher, london,
As already pointed out by another poster, Harman claims that this legislation was promised in Labour's manifesto. As they have ignored the promise of a referendum on the constitution cum treaty, the only logical course for voters is to ignore anything that Labour promise in their future manifestos.
Ben Wilson, New Buckenham, England
Representaion by group is a nonsense. There are plenty of bad eggs in all sections of society. It is the qualities of the particular individual that count not selection according to some half baked game cooked up by political zealots.
Colin, Carmarthen, United Kingdom
I broadly agree with the article.that it is an injustice. But, I would go further and ask everyone, especially, those employed in public service to use civil disobedience not to comply with Government data collection on who you are. You can say you are Muslim Pakistani Lesbian whatever you are.
Hyder Ali, London, England, UK
Why is Harriet Harman a minister she has absolutely no understanding of the law regarding Human Rights otherwise she would never have introduced this bill. By all means let her introduce this bill, but make her personally legally liable for it. Bankruptcy awaits!
Stephen, St. Ives, England
So if a white man wants to apply for a job he should dress as a women and / or wear make-up to change his skin colour ?
John, Norwich,
I am aware that my council job pays thousands of pounds a year more in other local authorities. How can that be right? Same job, completely different pay packet. The legislation to make some discrimination defunct has existed since the 1970's but it was never acted upon. Nothing will change.
judy, Liverpool, England
Harriet Harman is a extremest feminist who will in time create mass unemployment through empowering females, rather than thinking down the route of equality.
If Labour where interested in equallity, then why haven't we got a "Minister For Men." Harriet Harman is creating a "FEMINIST DYSTOPIA."
Pete, Hereford, Herefordshire
Harriet Harman is obviously going to push positive discrimination as far as she can: she is, after all, a major beneficiary of it.
Dave, Selby, UK
Harriet Harman got it wrong. I don't want a salary and pension equalled to a man's.I want a salary and pension equalled to Harriet Harman's or at least, a MP's one with expenses. That's proper equality, ain't it?
Carolyn, Surbiton,
Harman asks the Today Programme if women are 40% less capable. She'd be better to ask herself why entrepreneurs aren't making a fortune by employing cheaper staff. The fact that they're not is the real criticism of this policy, Minette.
RobW, Reading, UK
In the Harmanite school of 'equality' a woman who chooses to study arts subjects in university can be rewarded with a high-flying professional role in a technical field such as physics or engineering, because the latter are 'male-dominated', as men are more willing to study such demanding subjects.
Paul, Coventry,
The women Ministers in the Cabinet show exactly what happens when positive discrimination is in force. Harmen, Smith, Jowett, Balls's other half. All absolutely appalling.
phil, worcester,
Great article Another thought ! Since womens liberation and equality Married women or partners both need to be employed to be able to live because of inflated prices rents the cost of living in modern society Few couples are able to purchase a home or appartment.
john, The Bush, Australia
Does this law mean that the Lawn Tennis Association, which pays women equally at Wimbledon despite them playing 40% less tennis than their male counterparts, should be fined for a blatant example contravening the 'equal pay for equal work' directive?
Kate, Hong Kong,
"Positive discrimination" is discrimination! Typical of flawed Labor policies.
Jobs/ promotions/ pay should be based on individual's "ability" & value they create. Instead of PD, Govt can discourage discrimination by ensuring transparency in workplace.
Shan, Farnborough, England
Either all part of Labours "scorched earth policy" pre-loosing the next election and the following 3 or as I suspect, Harriet using legislation to ensure she is guaranteed a high paid job when she loses her seat in 2 years time.
Ian , Brisbane, Australia
Agreed Minette, This bill should be called the "Equality unless you're a white male less than retirement age Bill" I am from an ethnic minority but I don't believe in positive discrimination. The bill will just fuel resentbent between whites and ethnic minorities.
John Goode, Welwyn Garden City, UK
Excellent article. It's sad that the subject of the article is so reflective of life in England today. In the US I have been constantly discriminated against because I don't have a degree. Just employ / pay people based on ability to do the job - forget about sex, race, age or anything else!
Richard Stevenson, Charlotte, USA
While I agree that everything should be equal, that is just not the case and it will be a longtime coming.
The only way is that everyone should have the same rights as everyone else and that means everything in life not just work and pay. Only then will it realy change.
How far do you want to go?
Simon Halford, Bournemouth, UK
Interesting to hear the Harperson in parliament, saying that this Equalities bill is being introduced "As promised in our manifesto" If this promise, on a dodgy issue can be kept, surely the promise to hold a referendum on Europe, affecting the whole population, should also be brought into beinma
macnamara, Plymouth, ENGLAND
Equality should mean a level playing field with regards job applications. Removing one person's rights because they happen to be a particular gender or colour is discrimination of the very worst sort.
Eleanor, hants, UK
You're right of course, but your case is unwinnable - there are too many pressure-groups stacked against it.
Govt. policy is now formulated by pressure-group: eco-freaks, prohibitionists, anti-smokers, anti-drivers etc, Still their
"unrepresentativeness" will be /is being revealed at the Polls
Ken Leyland, Liverpool, U.K.
Sorry, Ms. Marin your analysis is naive in the extreme. I was a career diplomat for ten years. However, I learned that as a woman I was held to a much higher standard than male colleagues. Now I tell the girls to forget about career and marry a powerful man. Women will NEVER have equal opportunity.
Rhoda, Shanghai, China
Harriet Harman’s proposals on equality are the main reason I will be breaking my Labour voting habits of a lifetime at the next General election.
Malcolm Williamson, WGC, UK
It's all irrelevant anyway as this law is not even remotely legal under the European Convention on Human Rights, and could be easily challenged and overturned by any 1st year law student.
Rob, Birmingham, UK
What the big deal!Force company to open their salary sheme,a bit like a pub has to have its licence clearly in view
Women are better at managing team,word harder and still get no recognitionThis law is overdue
Time to teach men who abuse us for generations a lesson,they look for it they have it
Marie, London, UK
White heterosexual men are in the supremacy - they are in the majority in the senior positions of Government, in Parliament, in the Civil Service, in the Military, in business, in teaching, in public service leadership and in religion. Society is intrinsically biased against all other groups.
David Kinnen, Coventry, United Kingdom
Why isn't everyone asked at interview whether they are parents or plan to be and what childcare arrangements there are or will be. If both men and women were asked it would do two things. It would attack inequality but also put into everyones minds that children have and need two parents.
John, York, UK
No male chauvinist could have destroyed the years of feminist arguments on their equality more effectively than Harriet Harman with her belief that this proposed legislation is necessary,
Richard, Upper Hutt, New Zealand
Thank you, Ms Marin!
It was also interesting to read in the Times yesterday that if Harman had compared part time women's wages with part time men's wages, the pay gap would have favoured women. To compare part time women with full time men's salaries seems deliberately misleading.
David Space, London, UK
"It is and ought to be illegal." Not so, employers should offer whatever they think appropriate and employees should accept or reject. Undervalued employees will shift to jobs where their merits are more valued; employers who underpay will not get the best staff. Government and law should butt out.
Faustino, Brisbane, Australia
What a lazy lazy Government we have, and how insulting to women that they think the balance has to be tipped in the favor of women for them to compete in the job market - I would urge white males and women who feel belittled by this lazy legislation to boycott this lazy lazy government at ballot
nicholas dunkley, nottingham, uk
I know lots of women who are in better paid and more senior roles that I am. However, this law is just going to cast a shadow over their careers. No longer will people think they reached these positions through hard work and merit. No, they'll assume they only got there because of this helping hand.
Al, Trowbridge,
In America, when all this "equality" first started, a lady in Seattle contested not being allowed on the Seattle? Fire Department. On her first run while hanging onto the rails rushing to a major fire,lacking arm strength, lost her hold and was killed. Equality means different things!
J. Jacklin, N. Vancouver,
Well said. Positive discrimination is still discrimination and Harman surely has a chip on her shoulder about something. Besides, why wasn't she deposed for accepting illegal donations? Isn't that more blatant discrimination?
Steve Wynn, London, UK
Fortunately Harperson came out with this on the day of the by election, and white working class men gave their verdict. She will be gone at the next election.
Albert Hall, Kettering,