What a shame. The crowds waiting for the Gumball to arrive in Tirana, Albania were fantastic and really appreciative of the event.

A, Tirana,

Also, people should not run away and hide in another vehicle to cross the border.

Thats not right at all....

Erol, Moscow,

There are lots of other banger rallies, like the Plymouth-Dakar, Mongol Rally and the Staples2Naples, where ordinary people drive old clunkers across Europe. In the first year these attract the more enthusiastic driver who understands the nature of the machine they are driving and can therefore assess risk. They may drive at 100mph on a deserted motorway, but will slow down to 40mph or less on a country road. Experience teaches you what is "safe" and the organiser has better control over a small group.

In years 2, 3 and 4 a generally stupider, thrill seeking entrant comes along. Most have little experience of driving on foreign roads and might be in a car more powerful than they normally drive. They don't know that that "metal scrapping sound" is their disk brakes wearing through to bare metal.

The more of these inexperienced people you have the greater the chance of a crash. There is always a risk but idiots put that risk up disproportinately.

Greg, London, UK

James,

Just a thought...it's not a great idea to have a road race of high-performance cars on public roads...and people who compete and race at great speeds are likely to be a danger to other road users. Just a thought.

DavidBruno, Brussels,

Could there be signs here of the recent tendency to seemingly need to immediately find someone to blame? The reports that I have read in the last hour suggest that there might be other sides to the causes of what was obviously a tragic accident.

Might it be an idea to hear what actually happened before we accuse, judge and condemn? Perhaps the two UK drivers might not be a disgrace to the nation, immoral, or need their cars impounding, then followed by their immediate burning at the media stake, coupled with a road racing ban across the Continent in any form?

Yes, surely one should not leave the scene of an accident, but equally surely, sitting at our computers in the UK, none of us have future knowledge of the conclusions to be reached at Struga. In short, we simply don't know for sure precisely what happened.

On that basis perhaps the baying for the UK driver's hide, coupled with the closure of any such race, not to mention the nationalist sniping that has already occurred in this column. might be just a trifle premature?

Just a thought.

James Holland, Yapton, Arundel, Britain

François.. lets not get nationalistic about this shall we, there are idiots and fools in every nation, even your's, a country I enjoy very much, as for stay where you are, are you aware that the number of French citizens now working and living in London would make it France's 7th largest City !!

George, Dungwal, UK

Not to trivialise this topic, but..

Re: "Why so many british citizens are holidaying and dwelling in other european countries rather than staying in their delicious island ? They also could go to Iraq where they have spread a delicious flavour of democracy."

So many british are escaping their undeniably delicious islands, François, because not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a country so amazing that one never wants to leave. And also because they can, having built a strong economy by working over 35 hours a week, relying more on one's self and less on the nanny state to cushion les enfants de la patrie from harsh economic realities, and knowing that it is through productive activity such as work, rather than unproductive activity such as jealous whinging, demonstration and livestock-immolation, that one can build a strong base from which to colonise the world. Your choice.

Vive l'Entente cordiale, vive la diversité! ;)

Johnny, Bansko, Bulgaria

Not to trivialise reckless driving, but..

Re: "Why so many british citizens are holidaying and dwelling in other european countries rather than staying in their delicious island ? They also could go to Iraq where they have spread a delicious flavour of democracy."

So many british are escaping their undeniably delicious island, François, because not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a country so amazing that one never wants to leave. And also because they can, having built a strong economy by working over 35 hours a week, relying less on the nanny state to cushion les enfants de la patrie from harsh economic realities, and knowing that it is through productive activity like work, rather than unproductive activity such as jealous whinging, demonstration and cow-immolation, that one can build a strong base from which to colonise the world. Your choice.

Vive l'entente cordiale with a small 'e'! ;)

Dick, Bansko, Bulgaria

Theses millionaires didn't respect the law of several countries, even of Austria and these people don't respect the right for human life.

They think, they could buy everything, even human life.

Why should we respect such criminals. I hope they get a fair punishment. I think only death penalty could be a fair punishment, also for the organizer of this criminal event!!!!!

Oitzinger, Debant, Austria

Police in Holland pulled over several of the rally drivers and confiscated cars and driving licences for reckless driving. They stopped one too few.

Racing on public roads, madness!

Bruno Groen, Utrecht, The Netherlands

I hope the police and the authorities throw the book
at the organisers of the Gumball 3000 rally
and the two murderers.

Murderers - because they should have known that driving at those speeds for their own pleasure could result in death.

They've let England down, and don't deserve any help from Consular officials.

K Urban , London, UK

If the allegations are true and they did indeed leave the injured man and his wife at the scene, I have absolutely no pity for them whatsoever. Doubtless they will say that they were looking for help... or a policeman.

I wonder if they left the car they were driving at the scene or tried to cover it with twigs, moss and lichens...

Matthias LeBlanc, Pontypool, Torfaen

To Eric of Ann Arbor Michigan


Would you please turn yourself in? This will spare the rest of us several days of media focus when your insanity and warped views rises to the surface in actions rather than words here. And when that happens. Don't worry! I won't weep for you.

Murph, Madisonville, KY/USA

While I am saddened by the death of a man during this rally, I am disgusted by the ready judgments pronounced by so many in this forum on these two British men, who have not yet undergone trial. As usual, people make a series of assumptions based upon a short news article of a couple of hundred words. Because it was a 'rally', and because they were young men driving a porsche, and because they left the scene, they MUST be guilty, right? Not necessarily. early reports of any accident rarely mirror the findings of an inquiry - that's why we have enquiries and don't engage in summary on-the-spot-judgments. Remember, not everyone charged or tried with an offence is guilty. For all you sanctimonious halfwits out there who would happily sit on a kangaroo court without all the facts, there may come a time when you have cause to give thanks for due legal process. "There but for the Grace of God go I."

Alex, London, UK

And the award for "Most Tenuous Link to Iraq" goes to...

Eric, from Ann Arbor in Michigan!


Come on down!

Jeremy, Chichester,

We were harrassed near Calais last Sunday by participants of this rally - tailgating and flashing to get past as if no-one else had the right to be on the road. I hope they get what they deserve.

Angela, Brussels,

People!!! Two humans were killed!!!!!! Leaving the scene of an accident and trying to get across the border is a BIG crime!! At least 20 years in jail for criminals!!!
My condolences to the family of people who died....

John, Singapore, Singapore

The participants left the scene with another BMW, but were stopped and shortly afterwards, border authorities found them in another [vehicle] . . . at the Qafasan border crossing with Albania. The two British will be 30 days in custody, with the charges of reckless driving and not helping an injured passenger. They could be facing up to a year in jail. One year ??????They shoud get minimum 10,( SO THEY RESPECT HUMAN LIFE) to live the scene of an accident without helping its UNHUMANE .I , personaly came from R Macedonia, (which is not EASTERN EUROPE) and I know the road where the accidant happend and to drive 200km/ph you have to be insane.So any excuse is irrelevant.
Yes, accidans do happen on the road's BUT YOU NEVER LEAVE THE SCENE OF THE ACCIDENT without helping the injured , the basic rule of the highway code!

Nick , London, UK

200kph? actually that's pretty slow for this type of competition. I have taken part in similar races (and no - I am not rich) and whilst we did reach speeds of 150mph on a clear deserted motorway, we generally cruised at 120mph. This was the absolute maximum that I and the other experienced high performance driver of our car thought safe, and round other vehicles we travelled at much lower speeds. But more than one other car in our competition managed maximum speeds of over 200mph (porsche GT3s) and regularly cruised at 170mph+. They baited police by "spinning doughnuts" in front of them then disappeared into the sunset...

A big factor here is lack of sleep - we were pretty much forced to drive for 36 hours without sleep .... at that point, common sense deserts you.

Accidents were and are bound to happen. We don't know the full facts, but frankly they bring this on themselves, there is no way any such racing is going to come out of this kind of event free of blame.

paul, Milton Keynes,

I have been involved at the highest level both in organising and competing in proper car rallies. These are authorised by the FIA and the individual governing bodies of the country concerned. The key requirenment is that all competitive motoring is on roads closed to the public. Between these competitive sections the average speed is a strictly controlled 30 mph and competitors who commit a public road driving offence can be penalised up to exclusion. This event is an insult to rallying.

I have never competed on the Gumball, but know a number who have. Virtually their sole reason for going was to get the opportunity to driver their Supercars at highly illegal speeds on public roads. These cars (I have one too, but somewhat elderly) can not be driven legally at anywhere near their potential, except on unrestricted Autobhan or on a race track. These 'competitors' ignore this everywhere they can, to the risk of other motorists.

It not just should, but must, be stopped.

Peter Scott, Leeds, UK

did you know that oliver morely smashed his ferrari up a couple of years back causing serious injuries to some other road users...then his brother follows in his footsteps and does the same thing....when your traveling at speeds over 100 someone pulling out of a junction aint going to see you until its too late and theres no use swerving at over 100 cause that aint going to do much but make even more of a mess....both of you should be locked up and left to rot....i feel for the family who have suffered such a terrable loss....

rob, wilmslow, england

theres a video of the crash site around - it sounds from various reports and the images that the porsche may have been overtaking, and the golf. pulled out into their path from a side road.. Apparently both passengers in the golf are now dead..

yes, its horrific, and yes, its avoidable, but compared to the dakar rally, which sees deaths of competitors and locals every single year, the human cost is tiny.

Hugh Lunnon, Brighton, UK

"Who the hell are Adam Fresco and Marcus Leroux? And what have they got to do with it?"

Jo, I think they're the journalists who wrote the article. The photographs are of Morley and McConville, the drivers of the Porsche

Stephen, Scotland,

News just came out that Margarita Chepunjoska, the wife of Vladimir, who died two days ago, has also passed away as a result of her severe injuries from the accident. This probably comes as a surprise to many, because the Gumball officials did not feel the necessity to mention severely injured Margarita Chepunjoska even once in their official press releases on the accident.

Fred, Kopenhagen,

Joey Jones, the only people really benefitting from this are Max and his cohorts. If the participants wnant to prove what great driverw they are, enter a race or rally on a track or closed roads - there are many to chose from. This is a jolly for people with more money than sense and the worst sort of irresponsibility. And it's not the first serious accident. A freind of mine lost a foot in the evernt 2 years ago to mention just one..

Ben, London, UK

What an ugly crime. What an ugly event. Wow!

jim mcduff, Winnipeg, Canada

When something bad happens, shallow authority looks for someone to lay the blame on, partly to aswage a guilt trip and to look as though they have "done something". That said, this sort of high profile event does seem to attract it's fair share of "boy racers". That's the reason holding an international competition licence should be mandatory for all competitors.
I drove in rallies in the 1960's when cars had far less performance, and the possibility of being killed went with the territory. However, I don't believe I considered the possibility to being responsible for the death of someone else.

Andrew Milner, Karuizawa, Japan

Re : 'Who the . . ." remark. I believe that they (Adam and Marcus) are the authors of the article.

Barrie, Brussels,

Adam Fresco and Marcus Leroux..... They wrote the artical.

Ranald, Kopavogur, Iceland

If the golf driver was at fault, which it appears he was, then he got what he earned. Natural selection at work. The rest of you that want to make this an issue about class or money should get a clue.

If you fail to yield right of way or pay attention properly when driving, then you are not an "innocent victim". I'll withhold judgment until the facts are in.

Not stopping to render aid is another matter entirely.

DL, Los Angeles,

Brits drive like idiots in road rallies the world over, with no common sense as to road safety and the appropriateness of their driving. This is not the first time that British drivers have received this sort of noteriety. Other drivers hate them.

john, windsor, Canada

Who the hell are Adam Fresco and Marcus Leroux? And what have they got to do with it?

Jo, Southend,

Whilst the rally attracts troublemakers this was not what the original events set out to do. Unforunately the more glamorous and dangerous side of the event is what gets the coverage. In fact, the majority of the prizes are not position based. I feel that drivers are responsible for their own actions. The bad apples shouldn't be the ones who tarnish an event which has become such a spectacle for many motoring fans.

Another point to note is that there seem to be conflicting reports as to the two britons actions. I've read in other articles that the two drivers actually called the ambulance and spoke to the police at the scene before getting into another car to continue their journey. The article also mentioned that it was only after the victim suffered a fatal heart attack in hospital that the two were called in for questioning. It's easy to argue that the britons were driving irresponsibly but I think it's best to learn the full facts before forming such strong opinions.

Damon, London,

i want my bread and CIRCUSES

what is with all this hand wringing? Did you know the guy that got killed personally? This reminds me of all the people that wept tears for those killed at virginia tech. You don't know these people, why cry for them instead of the thousands that get killed in our war in Iraq each year? Crying for the unknown unfortunate is fake. Keep racing! Ok, now I feel evil. But honest.

eric, ann arbor, michigan

I started to watch a TV program on one of the recent Gumball rallys.

The participants all seemed to be shallow, rich and vain, with no consideration for anyone else.

Impressing the viewers and fellow contestants with mindless speeds and how rich they were was the order of the day - I couldn't stand to watch any more after 10 mins.

The actions of the cowardly British pair is a shame on us all.

Mark Piazza, walton on thames, Surrey

Whatever your view on the Gumball race is, to leave the scene, not helping a traffic victim who died susequently and another one in critical condition, abandoning your car and trying to flee the county is just not human.
How deep has society sunk to not help and respect one another?
Let alone that we have to british subjects in a foreign land behaving the very opposit of a Gentelman, a very big booo...

Mark Schafer, New York, NY

a “cultural international tour"... who are they kidding. Their racing killed innocent people going about their lives.

Luke, London,

It is disgusting the wealthy elite can treat the world as their own personnel fantasy world, complete with racetrack.
A ban on this despicable selfish event is now called for.

Peter, Dumbarton, Scotland

Agree with Jan completely. It's almost insulting to hear Gumball Rally organisers talk about suspending the rest of the race, as if this was an accidental death in a game of rugby or boxing. This is an event where the competitors bravely take on the risk of endangering not themselves, but innocent non-participants ! The words "criminally negligent" spring to mind. The family of the victim (including his badly injured wife) will hopefully receive a settlement so large that it makes all future "races" of this kind an impossibility.

Eamonn , Dublin, Ireland

Yes, I'm sure this was all the poor, ugly commoners fault. Why else would the overprivileged yobs jump into another car and try to get the hell out of the country without even trying to help the people who's lives they had destroyed? This race is disgusting. Anyone involved as a participant or a sponsor should be ashamed of themselves. These two should go to jail for longer than a year. But they're rich, so a couple of bribes here and there, and they'll be out of the country in a few weeks, and back driving through a school district near you next year.

Pilton, Edinburgh,

Leaving the scene of an accident and trying to get across the border by hiding in another car is just disgraceful and cowardly. if you are prepared to take the risks then you have to suffer the consequences. A jail term beckons I feel.

Ian Kenworthy, Swindon, Wiltshire

this is an organized event in which people are trying to accomplish the best time from point A to point B. Yes... they speed at times as i'm sure many of you do. it's for a good cause with lots of the monies paid benefitting some charity. one year it was breast cancer... not sure where proceeds were going to be donated this year. It's entertaining for it's participants and has been the only serious crash since it's start back in 1999. this was an unfortunate event and it was right to stop the race. HEY MAX... my name is Joe and i'm not rich but could probably get sponsorship money... send me an invite for the next one man.

Joey Jones, Jacksonville, FL USA

The fact that they quote " left the scene of the accident. Shortly afterwards, border authorities found them in another [vehicle] . . . at the Qafasan border crossing with Albania.” means they should have the book thrown at them.
Not speeding?? Gumball?? I don't think so!

Chris, UK,

Fully agreed. An accident, you can expect but rarely foresee. This situation is a lot more serious and, in my opinion, shameful.

Cedric Glume, Brussels, Belgium

Alex Robinson.... they did not stop....
Enough said.

Isabel, London, UK

"clipped the side of the golf car" - Haha, that's a good one. This is what really happened. Eye-witnesses from a nearby gas-station say that three cars were racing with 200kp/h towards the border when the Porsche lost control, went into the opposite lane, directly hit the VW Golf and made a horrible accident with one dead and one critically injured. The participants left the scene with another BMW, but were stopped and arrested by the Macedonian police authorities. The two British will be 30 days in custody, with the charges of reckless driving and not helping an injured passenger. They could be facing up to a year in jail. Good that this "show" is canceled, and more accidents are stopped from happening...

Aleksandar, Skopje, Macedonia

I've competed in two Gumballs - Max Cooper, the organiser warns everyone to refer to it as a rally because admitting it is a race would get it banned. The reality is the race is designed so that it is technically impossible to get from a to b driving within the various legal speed limits. It is a miracle no-one has died before, and astonishing that the various authorities allow it to occur each year, given the number of accidents. The British poilce actually helped send it off from Pall Mall this week - how can that be squared?

Adam, London, UK

The lives of the local “nobodies” are cheap to these playboy cowboys who think they can buy everything.

A few years in a foreign jail may make them rethink!!!

Dusty Miller, Dudley, England

If the golf pulled out from a junction without looking and not hearing a powerful porsche flat six, then I can't see that the British drivers could do much. They may or may not have been exceeding the speed limit, only time will tell, but the fact is that the same could have occurred if it hadn't been a gumball car! The jury is out, but suffice to say, whilst this is a tradgedy the blame probably doesn't lie entirely on one side. Unfortunately until then we will all be subject to conjecture.

Alex Robinson, Leicestershire, UK

As it has been said before: This rally does not jeopardize just the
participants and their fortune but also the ordinary people
using the roads. I do not see anything what they (participants) should
be proud of, except of show off their wealth and disrespect of law.
pa-te-ti-co

Rudy, San Diego, USA

Agree completely with Bosenberg; this kind of over-privileged nonsense is dangerous and an insulting grandiose display of pointless profligate spending by people with nothing better to do. The fact that these two bozos tried to flee the country rather than take the rap and all its consequences shows just how used they are to getting other people to cover their backsides for them. I guess the gravy train stops here boys; perhaps you'll have learned a few good lessons after a year in a Macedonian jail.

fergus, london, UK

Why so many british citizens are holidaying and dwelling
in other european countries rather than staying in their
delicious island ? They also could go to Iraq where they
have spread a delicious flavour of emocracy.

François SZYLOWICZ, Saché, France

what does "clipped the side of the golf car " actually mean. we do not have much of the truth eg how fast was the porsche travelling pre impact .
need more info before sentencing.
my condolences to those affected

dca, rennes, france

Well as far as I can tell the old geezer has obviously not seen them and pulled out on them.

True they shouldn't have left the scene but they probably panicked!

Such a shame and it's the only fatal accident sicne it's start in 1999 - pretty good stats considerign the speed!

J Sullivan, London, ENGLAND

Now all people involved in the Gumball race feel sorry and the organizer says they are doing everything they can for the victims Why the change? The two Porsche drivers did not seem to care very much for the victims after the accident occured, otherwise they would have done the least and try to help instead of cowardly trying to flee the country. And did everyone involved in the rally really think that you can drive on East Europe's country roads with 200 km/h without sooner or later causing a serious accident? I don't think so. I would rather guess that the organizers of the rally accepted from the very beginning that there would be a fatal accident sooner or later, but until then they would happily cash in the fees from the participants and the money from sponsors like adidas. Now that the accident has happened, they are trying to get away with cheap excuses and expressing sympathy with the victims. I hope they will not get away that cheaply.

Jan Bösenberg, Potsdam/Germany,