Creep over the speed limit, and you might get a £60 fixed penalty and three
points on your driving licence. Really put your foot down in a built-up
area, and the magistrates could relieve you of up to £1,000. And that’s
assuming you don’t injure anybody.
But go up a ladder without approved ladder training to install one of those
flashing roadside speed indicators, and the bench could have £5,000 off you,
plus costs, for working at height without consent. Height in this context
could mean 3ft (90cm) off the ground, but you could still end up in the
Crown Court. Even if you didn’t break your neck falling off.
Health and safety regulations are now the overarching power in the land, as
Lancashire County Council has discovered in its attempt to improve road
safety in the northwest by installing electronic speed indicators which are
regarded as effective in shaming drivers into slowing down.
Thirty of the devices lie waiting to be put up on their roadside poles, but
the council has found that it does not have enough staff qualified to go up
ladders to install them.
These days to go up a ladder you have to comply with the Health and Safety
Executive’s Working at Height Regulations 2005 (amended 2007) which are the
offspring of the EU’s Working At Height Directive born in Brussels in 2001.
Last year about 350 road deaths were ascribed to speeding. In the same
period 14 people died after falling off ladders.
Lancashire used to have three roadside speed indicators, which were erected
and maintained by the police. Policemen are qualified to go up ladders, but
they are not qualified to teach other people how to do so. With the sudden
expansion of speed indicators, the police have decided that they are too
busy to look after them and have passed off the responsibility. PC Ian
Ashton, of the county’s road policing unit, said: “Officers who deal with
the signs have had ladder training, but they are not able to train others.”
Peter Andrews, manager of the county council’s environment directorate, said
with a hint of desperation that he had approached the county fire brigade to
see if they could help. Of the many skills acquired by firefighters,
climbing ladders is near the top of the list.
“Until we get the fire brigade’s help we won’t be able to get any new signs up
and running because we have to make sure people are safe and within the law.
It is not a decision we have taken lightly but we have to make sure people
are properly trained because there is an element of risk,” Mr Andrews said.
The HSE takes ladder training very seriously. Ladder training involves being
supervised the first time you go up one, checking that you have the right
one for the job, and – ideally – not touching anything electrical while
you’re up one. It even runs a ladder exchange, offering to replace dodgy
ones with ones that are suitable for the job.
Tony Martin, Lancashire County Council member for Burnley and the council’s
cabinet member for sustainable development, said he was disappointed that
the police had given up responsibility for the speed indicators. “When the
first ones came out the police were very insistent that they wanted to
install them and be responsible for charging them up. Now that there are
more than three in the county they want rid of the responsibility. Now that
we have bought quite a few of these, they are languishing in village halls
for want of people with ladder skills.”
Roger Vincent, of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said:
“Road safety measures can save lives if they persuade motorists to slow down
and stay within the speed limit. A sensible approach is needed in this case.”
The police probably though the cameras were the sixty quid three penalty point variety. Then lost interest when they opened the boxes and realised they were the non-profit, warning only signs.
No doubt the managers of this failed project will get promoted to run the ID card scheme or the next NHS IT fiasco.
Mark, Oldham,
Have a look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/april.htm and
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg401.pdf
The use of ladders has not been banned. However, "Latest figures show that 45 people died and 3351 suffered serious injury as a result of a fall from height in the workplace." [source HSE].
You might also want to read http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/principles.htm?hseid=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5oc2UuZ292LnVrL3Jpc2svaW5kZXguaHRt
where the HSE statement on "Sensible Risk Management" can be found.
And no I don't work for the HSE, but I am employed in Health & Safety.
Renny, Fife,
what's going to happen in the future if 'Darwinism' is eradicated?
(Darwinism - removing oneself from the gene pool through ones own stupidity)
Tony, Christchurch, Dorset
Who trained the first person to use a ladder then?
Who assessed his performance? Who gave that person his qualification, since he couldn't be qualified because there was nobody trained.
We'll never be doomed. Bird flu will get us first. Or BSE. Or Legionnaires. Or the taxmaaaan!
Pup, Halesowen,
Shouldn't this have gone out on April Fool's Day?
I love the bit about policemen being qualified to climb ladders, but not qualified to teach others to do so. Presumably parents will soon be banned from teaching their children to walk because they are not qualified to do so.
Still at least we have another reason to get out of the EU as soon as we can.
Chris, Birmingham, UK
JJ in Auckland... You got a spare room? This place is indeed as barking mad as it sounds. Its like April Fools day every day of the year.
Mark, Birmingham, UK
This type of story is typical of the media trying to show health and safety in a poor light/stupid! The use of ladders requires some training so that those using them don't do anything foolish like over reach and fall. The problem here is that the council in question are in fear of civil litigation NOT hse prosecution. Why don't the council simply get one of the vans with a working platform attached that they use to mend street light to do the job. All of the signs would be up in a day!
R J, Notts,
Yet another example of the ludcrous beaurocracy that drove me away from living in the UK. Thankfully I have no intention of returning. The stelath taxes, the house prices, and the over zealous political correctness and pettie rules. Does the government really think we are incapable of taking responsibility for ourselves??
Nick Barrowclough, Incheon, S.Korea
Drive flat bed truck to site. Put on hazard flashers. Hop on to flat bed of truck. Install item. Get down. Drive off. Turn off hazard flashers.
Colin Burt, Hervey Bay, Queensland Australia
It is ridiculous the excessive health and safety culture we have in this country nowadays.
Deepan, London, U.K
Why is it that public servants become public bosses. Time to halt these QUANGOs and start again. Where is the evidence that people need special training in this particular 'skill'? How many people were actually hurt, how many climbing ladder episodes were there? So what is the probability of having an accident? Virtuallt nil! These Health and Safety people need to be brought to Public account. We see this overreaction all over the place (e.g., sitting only stadiums at football when hardly anyone was injured on the old terraces - yes, I know about Hillsborough, but one swallow doesn't make a summer). Where there should be better risk assessment, the system fails (e.g., children abused) usually through incompetence and Political Correctness. Time we had a change.
Ian, Bristol,
I note that 14 people died falling off ladders. I suppose the question is do we accept that as just one of those things, or should employers try and prevent that happening on their patch? Sometimes health and safety has gone way over the top. Sometimes a little bit of sensible forethought or training can prevent a tragedy. I suppose Lancashire CC ultimately have one eye on potential litigation, and that's where the problem really lies.
Bryan, Cheshire,
My father, in his early 90's, used to climb up the extendable loft ladder to get things near the hatch (he didn't actually climb up off the ladder). When I knew what he was up to I stood at the bottom of the ladder - just in case...... but my help was never needed, & he thought I was fussing. What he got up to when I was out of the house I have no idea. If the Health & Safety Executive had known, presumably they would have jailed him - or me, or both of us.
His views on modern political correctness would be, I'm glad to say, totally unprintable.
Dave, Wrexham,
Oh, England what ever happenned to our courage ?? Conditioned out of us by socialist Jobsworths and government employees with clipboards.
Also, what ever happened to facing down some of this imbecilic Political Correctness ?? Have we all been made to feel so timid that we dare nt make a stand on anything ??? Not even three foot ladders without a government certificate ??
Rick, Greater London, England
I am getting a bit worried. I am stunned to see that people are taking this story at face value. Falls from height result in a needless and shameful amount of serious injuries and deaths each year. However my main concern lies with the council who probably have the right people in their own organisation to consult with. Isn’t this just about money and resources? Its clear the police don’t want the job anymore so the council need to invest a small amount of money, time and effort in the safety of their colleagues.
Andy, Gloucestershire, UK
How about window cleaners or decorators helping out here?
N. C Anderson, Dorchester, Dorset
Hmm, Mr Stephenson, I would hardly cite China as a benchmark for best health and safety practice, although I agree with you about the stupidity and hilarity of this ladder training lark. The trouble is, as economies develop and workers' rights increase, legislation replaces common sense in order to protect the employers from litigation and their employees from harm. I don't know what the solution is, but I beg to differ that we're all 'doomed, doomed, doomed!!...' And on another subject entirely - I find it interesting that some expats seem to love pasting their disparaging comments about our country on this website. Shame on you all!
Miss Burrows, Ipswich,
The real stupidity is the fixation with the speed at which people drive. Only a single figure percentage of accidents are caused by exceeding the published speed limit - whilst inappropriate speed is a killer, that is a product of poor observational and anticpation skills. Driver training and harsher penalties for those causing accidents by brainless driving is the answer, not penalising people for trivial excursions above artifically low speed limits.
The police are probably happy not to fit the speed indicator boards (and now have a good excuse) - then they can catch more of us with dodgy hand-held speed guns!
Neil Porter, Southport, UK
This is the silly bit:
" installing electronic speed indicators which are regarded as effective in shaming drivers into slowing down"
The one outside my house is on almost enough to provide 24 hour street lighting and is totally disregarded by all.
LH, Woking, UK
Take the bone to the dog & fit mechanisims to the cameras to allow them to be lowered to ground level.
Box..think outside!!!
;-))
andy, norwich, England
Welcome to the nanny state! How amazing that the UK is the only country to have such ridiculous safety regulations? I'm amazed that we're allowed to have ovens without having to attend classes to learn how to use them....
david, London, UK
You failed to mention that Tony Blair brought this to the Country,
by signing in 1997 the European Social Charter. Give credit were
credits due. And now most of these issues are being made by
overseas faceless people.So much for democracy.
The same sort of democracy that Gordon Brown is showing.
Alan Walton, Leicester, England
An unhealthy percentage of deaths resulting from falls from height are caused by falls from a height of less than 2 meters. Would you like to explain that to someones wife, husband etc, no i didn.t think so. Health and Safety is an important part of todays life. Common sense to one person can be brain surgery to the man standing next to you.
Jim Donnelly, Scunthorpe, UK
what a load of rubbish this is exactly why i left england unlucky anyone left
John, Beijing, china
Jesus! better hope they dont start visiting homes! I have to use a step to get into the top shelves of my cupboards and I have no training what so ever. I cant afford a fine like that, I'd rather leave the beans up there!
Where will the line be drawn at stupidity by government bodies!!!
Klaire , Leigh on Sea, United Kingdom
I fai to see what could be deemed 'appropriate training' for a fully grown adult, where a 3-ft ladder is concerned ....
Possibly, this is one health and safety step too far ?
Adam Cox, Dangu, France
...and once they are done controlling everything you do, they will start on what you think...
Andrew, Cape Town,
It get's on my nerves! Soon we'll need special safety training and a certificate to even leave our homes! Rubbish.
Rich Mclaughlin, Birmingham,
Indeed. This article fails to mention the fact that the Health and Safety Executive is answerable to the Minister for Silly Walks.
Jason Shron, Toronto, Canada
Employ taller workers, or issue the staff with stilts.
Frank Upton, Solihull,
Well if they are not maintaned, surely that means they will either be "Full" or out of calibration - both of which is ok by me as I already have plenty of points and have just got back into fast motorcycles
frank, portsmouth, hampshire
Not the Tony martin?
Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Nagano
The biter bitten? Is this the way forward for those who feel oppressed by nannying bureaucratic control? Use ever more abstruse regulation to strangle the merely abstruse regulation. Fleas all the way down.
Clive Russell, Coleraine,
This country has become a mad place to live in - over-governed and over-ruled. How on earth do we turn back the clock to a time when common sense ruled?
Neil Marshall, Cambridge, UK
I have never read something so stupid and funny at the same time in all my life. Whilst I am very happy I don't live in the UK anymore surely people there are getting sick of Walter Mittys at play ? What do they actually bring to the party or generate ? Am I correct to assume they were all uneducated in order to get thier jobs , care in the community so to speak ? .........Check out the Worlds biggest growing economy folks ; China and ask them about Health & Safety - your all doomed , doomed , doomed !! ha ha ha ha...........
john stephenson, Beijing, China
What a load of baloney! Thank god I no longer live in England!
PC gone mad
JJ, Auckland, New Zealand