Tad Safran and Molly Watson
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Molly: Would you like to know how to make yourself really unpopular at weddings?
Tad: Get hammered before the service, puke in the baptismal font, heckle the speeches and then feel up the bride's mother?
Molly: All good thoughts. But it is much easier than that. All I did to get myself branded a monster at one recently was to decline to commiserate with a group of women who were complaining that their boyfriends were showing no sign of proposing despite several years of cohabitation.
Tad: For God's sake, Molly, have you no heart? Even I can sympathise with these women who are deafened by the ticking of their biological clocks, and I'm a man.
Molly: Oh, I sympathise with their longing for commitment. I just can't see why they thought moving in together would speed things along.
Tad: That's the natural progression, isn't it? You meet someone, date, shag lots, move in together, shag considerably less, marry.
Molly: My view is that until a man proposes he is still at some level deciding whether his girlfriend is The One. Until he decides, the downside of moving in together is too big to risk it. You know what they say about buying cows when you get milk for free...
Tad: I can tell you now that free milk is not worth the price of living with a cow.
Molly: Oh tee hee. But seriously - why do women elect to give up a big chunk of their independence to be auditioned at close quarters by someone who isn't ready to marry them?
Tad: The auditioning works in both directions. Women get to find out about those things you need to be in close proximity to discover: bathroom habits, sleep noises, flatulence, cleanliness, laziness. Moving in together makes sense. Even rug dealers allow you to try out a piece in your home before you have to make your mind up. What looks good in the gallery, doesn't always suit your home. It's the same with partners.
Molly: But the women who I cheesed off so colossally had decided long ago that they loved and wanted the rug, sorry, man in question for keeps. Their problem is that their boyfriends feel no such urgency or certainty about marriage.
Tad: Guys don't ask women to move in unless marriage is a very real possibility (or they're poor and need help with the rent). We don't do it lightly. It's incredibly inconvient to have a woman move in. They move the furniture, scatter cushions about the place, throw out the knick-knacks you love... and make you put the loo seat down, which I've never understood. If I can open my eyes in the night long enough to pee and hit the target, surely you too can open your eyes to see whether the seat is up or down.
Molly: I'll explain that to you another time...
Tad: I'm sure that there are a lot of men reading this who would like to be illuminated too, but anyway... it's a big deal if a man asks a woman to move in. If we do it, it's because we want you there and probably want to marry you. The prize is there for the taking.
Molly: But taking on what terms? As you say, it is a game of probabilities. Cohabitation may lead seamlessly to marriage. But it may also lead to you reaching such a low ebb that you spend weddings in a green sheen of envy, complaining to people about how your boyfriend won't propose. Forget subtle hints. These women were resorting to campaigns of attrition and entrapment to pressure their men up the aisle. Some of them were sperm bandits who advocated engineering an “accidental” pregnancy to move things along.
Tad: So there are risks in cohabiting for both men and women.
Molly: Yes - and one of the worst risks for a woman is of losing her self respect by living with someone year after year who, in her heart of hearts, she suspects doesn't mind about her quite enough to marry her. Any woman who wants to marry whoever she is living with should have the courage to propose and live with the answer she gets.
Tad: Great idea. Women should definitely follow your advice... if they enjoy packing.
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If your goal is to stay married then the statistics are clear. Couples who cohabitate before marriage have a higher divorce rate. Cohabitation is not the same as marriage. You can keep repeating it like a mantra, but that doesn't make it true.
Dee, Phoenix, USA
Bearing in mind that your marriage is more likely to last if you have not lived together beforehand then I can say no more
Denise B, Oldbury, UK
It is wise to keep their distance, emotionally and physically, until they get to know the person properly and can see if they are compatible and someone they can live with/ie marry/be with. If not, and get together quickly as is normally the case there seems to be commitment but probably is not.
Michelle, London, UK
Hey, I cohabited and guess what? She, yes she, proposed to me and we're very happily married (coming up to 12 years). Was she the first girl I lived with? No. But only by spending serious amounts of time with another person can you make the life changing decision about marriage.
Mike, Epworth, UK
Molly said "Some [women] ... advocated engineering an 'accidental' pregnancy to move things along". The girl that I was with tried that with me. I left two weeks later. I cannot imagine wanting to marry someone who would treat me so awfully. I pay, but my ex-girl now raises our child on her own.
Douglas , London, UK
Wake up girls, men don't think of THE ONE, they have an idea of what sort of girl they'd like to marry and if they meet one that fits the bill, they marry her. The reason men are reluctant to marry in general is not the commitment, it's the fact that they are stuffed if it ever goes to divorce.
Doug Bates , St. Albans,
I don't know a single person in any capacity - family, friends, friends of friends, who ever married the person they were cohabiting with. It's simple: If you want to get married, don't cohabit.
Liz, Chicago, USA
Girls, look at it this way - when you meet your dream man (they do exist - I am one myself), would you rather that he had lived with a few girlfriends, or that he had been married 3 times? The 'try before you buy' approach can work well and benefit both parties.
Don Bricks, London, England
Moving in together is very different from marriage. It's very common for relationships which have lasted happily for years to fall apart within a year of marriage.
Some people (men and women) think that by getting married there will be a sea change - e.g suddenly the other will want children...
Chris, Cheltenham,
if the 50s were so terrible why do we harken back so often.... we're wearing their clothes, baking their cookies, cath kidstoning the house with flowers....
racheal, london, UK
Hope all is well back there in the 1950s "Molly". Feel free pop to the 21st century for a visit sometime.
kate, cardiff,
Sounds like some bitter hags have met some wretched men. Ever considered that living together gives the woman all the privileges of marriage? Some men also consider it a test period. If you can't last 6 months together, why get married? Perhaps some of these commentators have synched their hormones.
James Cullup, Oxford,
The revealing aspect of this article is how many women think they are the milk, or the cake, or whatever. Something precious not to be given away. Gender equality? If I think I'm precious and valuable how equal am I ever going to want to be with you?
Rob, Reading, UK
As the UK divorce laws stand they make it foolish for a man to marry. If the precious little darling does manage to snag a man what has she caught? A fool.
Rob, Reading, UK
Moving in is the first step onto Less Sex More Nagging Highway.
Marriage is the second.
Dave Smith, London,
Don't Marry 'Em!
When she was gone, I held the key;
and understood I'd been in chains.
I cried at first, to be so free;
and wondered at the broken reins.
But now, I laugh and welcome change.
I wake each day and never sigh.
I run through life like choo-choo trains!
How glad I am she said goodbye!
victor compton, Cherbourg, France
A mans got to do what a mans got to do; woo her, spoil her a little (don't over do it); keep her laughing (or smiling at least) and she will let you partake of her pleasures and even suffer the burden because she doesn't really like it....OR DOES SHE?
I am 'into' my sixteenth relationship - boom!
Derek Clifton, Andover, Hampshire, England
Reading this piece and most of the frankly bizarre comments I seem to have gone back in time to when people assumed women weren't interested in sex and it was all men were after! I honestly can't believe you people think all women are only interested in marriage and men only in sex. Amazing.
Reg Varney, Sheepy Magna, UK
Anita's comment re "free sex" says it all really.-
A mature view is both people get balanced needs satisfied in a relationship emotionally and physically. Moving in is not entirely about the latter. In fact the way psyches work, surely the male would prefer to follow the hunt mentality
rob, Manchester,
The article and responses all seem a bit odd.
They assume and assert that only men like sex and women get nothing from it.
Marriage does tend to lead to a more certain commitment. Or so the statistics say.
john cramer, strathfield, australia
Other countries have facilitated cohabitation between couples of same sex or not. Haven't you heard of PACS. It provides similar rights to married couple regarding tax and inheritance, and can be broken easily by one of the conjoint without the need of scavenger lawyers. Uk stays in the middle age.
Lauren, London, uk
Agree with that article - girls in your mid-20s, don't move in with your boyfriend, it doesn't mean they're serious, they're just splitting the rent and getting regular free sex. It doesn't mean they intend on doing the decent thing and marrying you - they're already having their cake and eating it.
anita, cambridge , uk
What is living together, then, if not the same as marriage but without the blessings of the government or any church (or your mother)? Or do you move in with someone but don't bother to share your life, just the space you live? Or are Molly and Tad 12 year olds?
Rachel, sao paulo, Brasil
I have to say that with my ex i agreed to move in as it gave me time to wange out.
My current girlfriend - i have no intention of moving in with her as I am planning to ask her to marry me. IMO you only move in to avoid marriage. If you want them marry them.
rich , belfast,
What a load of old rubbish! Not all women think getting married is the pinacle of their achievements! Molly, really, talking about THE ONE is for 10 year olds. Grow up. And really, what benefits are there for independent women to marriage?
Marie Borard, Chelmsford, UK
Oh. My. God. OK, repeat after me, very slowly:
Marriage. Is. Not. Necessary.
Caroline , The Netherlands,
What responsibilities does a man have in marriage that he does not have when living together?
At that level of commitment you would expect marriage-like fidelity. A mortgage is probably more binding then marriage is anyway!
What is the diiference apart from a name change?
Sarah, London, UK
I am always surprised at the number of women who co-habit but have never had a conversation about the 'M' word with their partner even though they admit that it's top of their life plan agenda.
Paul Compton, London, UK
Both views are based on the assumption that marriage lasts forever - and we're seeing more and more that it doesn't. In which case, the divorce laws are heavily skewed towards the woman - any sane man who places sense before emotions knows not to marry in this social climate.
Richer woman? No probs
Howard, Manchester,
Co-habiting gives a man all the privileges of marriage, but not the responsibilities.
Martha, Bristol, England
Couldn't agree more. Seriously girls - don't co-habitate until you've had an offer of marriage, a ring and the venue is booked, THEN move in.
Men generally don't see living together as a prelude to getting hitched - its seen as an alternative to it.
don't let them have their cake & eat it too, London,
What does marriage give anyone. In an age when divorce is so easily attainable.
Richard, London, UK
Modern time = modern methods. Why can't women ask the man to marry her? Or would it be that really they know that he is not a man just a boy?
Peter, Swindon, UK