as an american living in london i am shocked to discover how twistedly PC the UK has become. it was a mob! call it what it was for gods sake! and all these stabbings? the gov knows what countries these people come from but won't publicly say it as it is "inflammatory"...give me a break!

Alex, London, England

I say arrest the parents as well. Are they not responsibile for this young lady's actions?

William Ferrell, Castro Valley, California, U.S.A.

"Whilst we would never use the word 'mob' which is an inflammatory word"

What Politically Correct crack are you folks smoking over there?? No wonder your country is in such a fix if you can't even call a mob a mob.

And arm your officers at least with tasers. Have you considered public canings?

Scott, Durham, NC, USA

"Guns command respect" - how you have failed to understand respect.

Farrukh, Woking,

There is nothing wrong with police officers being armed. I live in Canada, a country with many root society values connected to the UK and police officers carry guns. Guns command respect. You can't protect people if you don't have their respect.

Tammy, Toronto, Canada

Will S by using the word "community" you are pussy footing around. Britain needs to stop thinking it has such strong "values" and "heritage" of freedom, and give officers the discretion to be armed and use force. I've been in the Caribbean until now and there you confront an officer, you get beat.

Rob, Madrid,

When will people stop pussyfooting around and tell these communities to get a grip of themselves? I don't see why I, and other peaceful, law abiding people, should have to put up with others' failings - this is precisely the reason why we have such an excellent class system in this country.

Will S, London, UK

Yes! Catch them and prosecute them all! Then we can have another whinge at the paltry community service orders dished out. This country, my country, really is becoming a disgrace.

"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime."

Mike, Bristol, UK,

Users, our Police are armed, otherwise how would we explain a businessman shot dead by police a few weeks ago. While in the US I saw three people shot dead, an 8 year old, a deaf woman who could not lip read so was shot and a teenager because they walked on someones grass. Disgusting.

Anne, Nottingham,

Kelly from Kentucky, thanks for highlighting to your fellow Americans things are not perfect in the U.S. In the absence of any student gun massacres in a university or school to comment on, they put their smug opinions on a UK quality newspaper website. Thanks to those that have shown support though

Matt , Reading, UK

What’s to fear! The police have no power along with every other so call authority in this country. Until the law is changed to look after the law abiding and discipline the lawless harshly nothing will change.

Will, Bristol,

I am astonished by any attempt to rationalise the behaviour of these youths! What can possibly motivate any UK citizen to seek any justification for this mindless attack? Don't mitigate this violence - there's no excuse! Should we attack a teacher because of a bad school report?It's pitifully naive!

Michael, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, UK

Clearly this incident was horrible, but I don't think people need to be predicting the downfall of Britain just yet. No one died, and I am sure that the police will take new measures to protect themselves. To my fellow Americans: let's wait until we have a perfect system before advising others.

Kelly, Kentucky, USA

To Tony, London: Tell me you're not justifying this mob by excusing a rage born of envy. The "have-nots" have access to free shooling and health-care,etc whilst the "haves" pay for it. With universal suffrage we all have an equal political voice. They are crimininals and should be held accountable.

Pete N, London,

Britiain like clockwork orange? Absurd exaggeration - perspective pls! Things are tough, in some areas, in some cities, but this is an unusual case. It's not like the streets everywhere are overrun with gangs & fights. Its rare for a police officer to be hurt or killed here - unlike other countries!

Gemma, Notts,

To Alex from Kenilworth,

According to this it is:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article4380637.ece

Ken, London,

There is a rage simmering here in the UK. This rage is born of powerlessness in the face of making any real mark in life given the ever-yawning gap between the haves and have-nots, the lack of voice politically, and the abject failure of politicians to lead and to be accountable.

tony, London,

"Whilst we would never use the word 'mob' which is an inflammatory word,"

oh lord in heaven

ayla, london,

Being cooped on your gloomy little isles has always brought the worst out in you English; one sees Britannia at her most majestic while sailing the seas seeking adventure..Like an eagle, the English must soar, otherwise you will wither, become very mediocre, and...French. Be great again!

Dave, New York City, New York

i guess british "youth" is confusing "28 days later" with reality.

Andreas, Brussels, Belgium

I thought violent crime was down?

Alex, Kenilworth,

I wonder how she would have behaved had she been alone and not backed up by her friend. I ticked a woman off for dropping her chewing gum on the pavement outside a shop when there was a bin about 2 ft away, I got off very lightly, she just sneered at me.

sarah, france, france

I am so happy I left 20 years ago. It frightens me to see or hear of the crimes committed in the UK now. Discipline begins at home and it seems to me that it's kids bringing up kids. No-one cares anymore for their "neighbour" and it seems we are turning into an animal society. Outrageous!!

Kim, KL, Malaysia

Are the posts on here from American readers instructing us how to maintain law and order here in the UK and pontificating about the state of the nation intentionally ironic?

Esther, London,

I would like to see our PC's carrying a weapon, for both their protection and a warning to those who consider confronting them.

Elliot Norton, Formby, United Kingdom

Why worry? Nu Labour says crime is falling. Trust Gord everyone, trust Gord

John, Barnsley, UK

I live in Croydon and I can say that it's gone downhill. It's little more than a township now.

John, London,

what do you expect when we get these so called community police taking the place of real trained officers on the street. It all looks good for the government but they are an inadequate substitute. At one time you would respect an officer who were carefully selected and well trained now we get these!

neil, almere, holland

Dave - Los Angeles, I often watch Cops and see police officers get attack. You are talking about a country where a police officer gets murdered every 48 hours. Who should be embarrassed? If police in the UK carried guns then like in the US more criminals would carry guns and the stakes higher - Fact

Ben, Huddersfield, UK

In the current climate, trying to break up the disorder or helping the cop could mean you are stabbed. I think it would be appropriate not to interfere.

John, London,

I blame the 'do gooders' for the beakdown of law and order in our society - there is too much emphasis on the rights of the law breakers. I say that if you commit a crime then the rights of the victim should be paramount and those of the lawbreaker secondary or non-existant.

K Barnett, Dingwall, Scotland

Zero-Tolerance NY style!

That's what's needed!


Lets bring over Giuliani, he can even sort out Boris.

Damian, London,

thank god i dont live in london i live in manchester and we never get anything like this

dennis, manchester, england

I know a few people who have emmigrated to canada form Britian in the last couple years. I have a funny feeling that situations like this may be a factor. Violence seems to be absoloutely out of control! More and more we hear stories from Britian that seem to be similar to this.

Colin, Sarnia, Canada

Before i am accused of being racist,my girlfriend is of black descendant from streatham.Always it seems to me, is that it s gangs of black youths,shooting,stabbing and mugging all members of society even there own.Its not racist to admit there is a problem in black inner city neighbourhoods.

clete dyker, liverpool, england

When the crooks arent afraid of the police any more you are in trouble. You better sack the mayor and police chief and empower the police to enforce the law. That means by force if necessary. You all sound like prisoners of fear in your own country. FIGHT BACK or submit, it's your choice.

Bigjim, Cincinnati, USA

I live in the States and have always assumed that things in London are always more civilized than in the big cities here. From what I'm reading here, that is obviously not the case. I agree with Ian - no excuse for this behaviour. I really hope they catch and prosecute all involved.

lucy, las vegas, U.S.A.

Why are police officers here in the UK frequently unarmed??? How are they supposed to defend themselves or the public against violent criminals who have weapons if they have no weapons themselves? Something is seriously wrong with that.

Barbara, London,

I truly weep for England when I read stories like this. So many years as a proud and strong nation, but they are hanging on by a thread. The state of things makes "A Clockwork Orange" look idyllic. It's like a sick, twisted, left-wing, 3rd world Clockwork Orange...frightening!!

Ken, Sacramento, U.S.A.

People are saying that it's the parents and society that are to blame. Perhaps it is, to an extent, but at some point people have to take responsibility for their own behaviour. I hope all involved get hefty prison sentences.

When you get mobs attacking police, you know that things are bad.

Stuart, Leicester,

the police officer stated "This is just nonsense violence. It is difficult to think that they could do something like this - and to a policeman"
1.what is nonsense violence
2. would it have been lesser of a crime if they did it to ordinary folk?

sal, birmingham, U.K.

Old Bill won't put up with this. They always look after their own, so maybe tonight the patrol cars will be left behind and a bunch of old fashioned hard nosed coppers will be on the streets of Croydon showing who's who & what's what.

Ken Whysall, Hemel Hempstead,

This is why police officers have weapons with them in the united states. kill or be killed its not an option, nobody should have to fear for there lives not even police.

jp, arizona, united states

In the US, one or two in the Mob would have been shot as soon as they touched one of the police officers. Yes, we have our problems but a well armed police force should be the norm in any country. Without that you have to rely on criminals who naturally do not respect authority, to respect authority

Jake, Nashville, TN, USA

I can remember when the British were respected and admired throughout the whole world for their calm determination, respect for others, politeness, common sense in an emergency, self discipline............I could go on. But then I am very old and still have a good memory.

Richard, Alicante, Spain

Dont arm the police? Ok..just walk around with pepper spray? Sure...that helped these two officers fine didnt it?

Chris H, Las Vegas, USA

Please Americans don't try telling us Brits to arm our police look at your own mess in the USA your rate for gun crime is much higher than in the UK if we arm our police we'll begin a spiral that will soon get out of control.

Rick Rogers, Yatton, UK

20 lashes from a whip will ensure they never do such a thing again. There is no discipline in our youth today.

Farrukh, Woking,

To our American friends who are so concerned about the apparent lawlessness in the UK, bear in mind that our streets are generally free enough of crime that we still don't feel the need for an armed police force. That's a lot more than can be can said for the USA, and other countries.

Ray , Manchester, UK

Lets get it right Break the law and you kiss GOODBYE to your 'human rights'.
Its not Joe public thats gone soft on yobs but the Labour government who are too scared of upsetting this one or that.
I live in the east End of london and its a tinderbox waiting for the spark.
Stun Gun and Mace job .

Cris, London, UK

Some comments from the great British public are bewildering. The Police cannot win, if they had ignored it and not taken any action most people would complain that they don't do anything.I think people really want action to be taken, standards enforced. You cannot cherry pick which law you follow.

S Carter, Lincs, UK

British has serious problems due to an accepted culture of violence. Having spent alot of time in the US and France it is clear to see that people in the UK lack basic skills in interacting with other people. The drinking, fighting, lowest common denominator culture is an embarrasement.

JK, Southampton, UK

What has happened to your country? As bad as our crime problem is, again and again I hear about things that happen in the UK that would NEVER happen here, and more often than not, it involves a complete lack of respect for and fear of the police.

Sam Adams, Portage, Indiana, USA

Hate to hear about such situations, I'd expect to hear this kind of ugliness here, but England? Sad, especially knowing its going to happen more and more..

K Pinkney, Los Angeles, USA

Picking up litter is a social responsibility whether it is yours or not...She should and we should without being told. Good to hear that things are the same on both sides of the pond.

Eric, La Plata, USA

Ask, no BEG Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew to come out of semi-retirement and take over. We need strong anti-social laws. Fine the litter louts, flog those who stick chewing gum to benches, arrest the yobos who seem to think that train seats are for wiping the soles of their shoes. Respect.

Lara, Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia

I'm glad I live in a country where people fear attacking police. The police would rightfully shoot us dead if we attacked them. If people are raised without any sort of fear and respect then you get mobs attacking other humans over stupid reasons.
Give those UK cops guns.

Jean, Anchorage, USA

Golly, isn't socialism grand?! I can hardly wait till Obama wins and the democrats screw us up just like Europe!

Martin, California, US

I am a former member of the Police who wore a firearm for years while patrolling a large city dealing with teenage gangs, and never used it once. We usually patrolled in pairs and the confidence and respect that awareness of those firearms and our known professional ability gave us was palpable.

Charles, Melbourne, Australia

The head of your Police should read Rudi Giuliani's "Leadership" and get the details on Compstat that dropped New York City's crime rate by 75%, making it one of America's safest. And it wasn't by giving the police bigger guns. It was by measuring crime and dealing with it.

Russel Polk, Austin, TX, USA

Unarmed. Hmmmmm.......sure seems like a good deal for mobs and bad guys. It is a testament to the character of your police officers that they are still willing to do the job with their government so willing to hang them out to dry.

Robert, California, U.S.A.

My anglophilia includes respect for British resistance to arming everyone. Look at the statistics, our death rate compared to gunless countries. Don't, don't, please don't go down that road. It has no limits.

Nancy Brooks, Wytheville, Virginia USA

That is why I am glad I live here in America. In britain where guns are not allowed even for their cops people are running wild. I feel sorry for you people over there.

Ronnie, Wichita , United States

This is a notorious area, even by south London standards. Having worked for many years in Croydon, I often used this pedestrianised precinct but I always got out of there as quickly as my feet would carry me. There was always an undercurrent of violence. Still Crime is down - so the statistics say.

Frank, London, UK

You limeys need to give your cops guns, plain and simple. This kind of thing would NEVER happen in the US. Even if it did, we would have had SWAT teams locking down that area and hauling everybody in for questioning. You get the law enforcement that you pay for.

John M, Louisville, USA

The police SHOULD have something better to do than enforce anti littering laws, but this example clearly shows that today's youth has been allowed to become so degenerate that even the police cannot prohibit trivial offences. What hope for safety and decency on the streets for ordinary people?

Eddie, London,

'Whilst we would never use the word 'mob' which is an inflammatory word' - This is the mind set that has created the situation whereas officers get attacked. Lack of authority will continue to degrade as long as we permit the liberal mentality to thrive.

Richard, Gettysburg, USA

I like the holier-than-thou attitude from some of you Brits. Pointing fingers at Guantanamo like it's an excuse for you to turn up your nose. We struggle to have law and order here in the US and it usually works. No cameras on the corners either, big brother lives in the UK not in the US...yet.

Mier DeVries, Texas, USA

We haven't heard the full story, and never will. The police handled the situation badly and violence was the result. Most police are not suited to dealing with the public, they are confrontational and aggressive in every experience I've had with them. They picked on a child and got their due reward.

Rob, Dublin, Ireland

(Adam Sanders, Spring Valley, New York, USA) --This is true but the USA is not a good example. US cops are increasingly and unjustifiably violent against nonviolent citizens. You have no clue what your being trained for but you will soon enough. You are about to become an oppression enforcer.

Travis , Pittsburg, USA

Thanks, Dave from London, that was a "point" well worth making. Very beneficial for all concerned.

Kevin, London,

Why don't the officers carry guns?

joe, kansas city, USA

That's absolutely disgusting...I'm embarrased to say I am English.

Natalie Jones, West Midlands,

clockwork orange anyone? how 'bout a bit of the kroovy red vino?

Zoe, New York,

Me thinks the peasants are revolting.

ronnie, bucks, UK

Rory from Croydon,

I work in Croydon and I can tell you that litter and disrespect are very commonplace here.

Bob Nelson, London, UK

A country and a city in need of a heeping helping of Rudy Guiliani
. Disgusting.

Richard, Europa, Europa

Cops without guns. What a great idea!

When I read this article, I immediately assumed the mob were "immigrants. " Guess I was right.

Al, New York, USA

Violence of this nature cannot be condoned; however this latest development in teenage brutality/violence serves to illustrate the nature of our dysfunctional system: a system which practices control over consideration, band-aids for the end-result; rather than solutions for the underlying issues.

Brian, Newtown, Wales

It is scary to see that there is so much violence in this country. Perhaps we need to look deeper. Even if someone has no respect for authority, they would not resort to such violence. We need to ask ourselves why this is happening to our kids. I suspect that we are not asking the right questions.

Natalie, London, London, UK

The reaction by the police in this country would have been decisive and much more harsh, as it should be. You need to beef up your laws and be much more severe in dealing with these kind of people.

Bill Atkins, Rehoboth Beach, USA

This would not be happening if Enoch Powell had been listened to in the first place.

jcb, darwen,

I guess basic corrupt disrespect for environment and society..
is the source of this.We get to the point where we have to criminalise dropping of litter because people just dont care and respect anything. Collective lack of purpose, values and consenus doesnt help

tony trebilcock, manchester, uk

The veneer of civilization is indeed very thin. This shows that in some places it is completely worn away. Perhaps the politicians can give them a stern talking to.

John, Glasgow, Scotland

Good grief, since when did this become a tit-for-tat about US and English justice systems? OK, we're different countries so what should we all expect? We do stuff differently. We rationalize differently. Let's respect each others' opinions. So, deal...

jeremy hall, troy, USA

I cannot defend the act of the mob. However, maybe the policemen should repeat deescalation 101 and care more about knives than litter.

Paddy, Bremen, Germany

Disgusting is all I can say. Arm the police properly to put the fear of death into people. What good is pepper spray when you are attacked by a group that big.

Morgan, Newport,

Everybody can point their fingers at whichever ideological cause they wish to blame, but it doesnt change the facts. London is an increasingly violent and unpredictable city. Either find a solution or succumb to barbarism. And the solution will require illiberal measures like punishing criminals.

John, Montclair, NJ

Police : Pick that litter up
MoP : But I didn't drop it
Police : Pick it up or I will arrest you
MoP : But, I didn't drop it
Police : You're going to pick that up now or I will arrrest you
MoP : Picks up litter otherwise they will be assaulted by a uniformed civilian

I've seen it happen

Nervous, Sussex, UK

The sad thing is this is a national problem. There simply isn't any boundries these days. Police have no power, teachers have no power, parents have no power. A teacher or police officer so much as gives them a clip around the ear for speaking out of line, and they are the one whos punished.

Allan, Cumbria, UK

You Brits must be mad, literally mad! :)

Hurley, Beech Mountain, NC, US

This doesn’t give a complete picture of the situation. Did the rubbish belong to the young girl beforehand? I was once asked to pick up some rubbish off the floor of a street which I was walking on once and the police became aggressive when I told them that I wouldn’t as it was not my responsibility

phsyt, teesside,

I wonder if the officers were armed, even with CS gas, whether this would have escalated to such a point? Respect in this country has far from waned, we are now in a situation of 'anti-respect'. Sounds like the two officers were deliberately goaded before being targeted. Disgraceful.

Steve Barnes, Houghton le Spring, England

Why do you have to say 'unarmed' policemen? Most police officers are unarmed. By putting the word 'unarmed' what are you suggesting? That it wouldn't have happened if they had been armed? That they should have been armed? Not-so-subtle manipulation by the journalist.

Alex, London,

I'm sure it was just a slight misunderstanding.

Ray, London,

Enoch Powell come back all is forgiven

A. Fiftys born, Chelmsford, uk

Just shows again the lack of respect some people have towards the police. Not exactly surprising given low sentences and lack of justice for victims of crime

scott, kilwinning, ayrshire

Learn from Singapore the litter free city. Fine litterbuggers 100 pounds for dropping a piece litter or a smoked cigarette stub.

San Ying, Montreal, Canada

Its okay, crime is falling, it's official... in Nu-Labour fantasy land!

Andrew Brown, derby, UK

More 'Youths Of No Discernible Origin' (YONDOs) then. Any bets?

Liam, Birmingham, UK

Do think this kind of violence against the police would occur if the police were armed?

Damian Anderson, Montgomery Village, Maryland, USA

In answer to Kims question, quote- "what is Boris doing about this" surely what is more to the point is what are this useless Government doing about it nothing as far as I can see they just talk big and do nothing, I say bring back National Service and get them off the streets.

Bob, London, England

"Whilst we would never use the word 'mob', which is an inflammatory word"

This - from a senior police officer - is utterly beyond parody.

Liam, Birmingham, UK

here's wishing a quick recovery to the police officers ... 30 on 2 ... gutless punks ... TC from Cambridge UK ... police force successful?! ... you put your officers in a untenable position & the unruly blokes are free to pummel again ... keep your success.

Pat , New Jersey, USA

Bernard.... asked or told either way there is no excuse for their animal behaviour. The police are only doing a job.

louise, brighton, east sussex

You Brits are something else - when you let a mob of kids (oh excuse me we can't call them a mob because it might hurt their feelings) get away with practically murder then you have allowed your society to degenerate to barbariasm. That's why we have terrorism today - protect the bad people.

Kevin , Pittsburgh , USA

I am a forty eight year old ex-teacher. I left the profession after becoming increasingly disgusted at the barbarous behaviour of many pupils who poured constant scorn on me and my colleagues. We are indeed in a dark place if this is now happening to the police!

J. McGowan, Nettleton, England

It's OK, the other day Gordon Brown introduced the novel idea of acceptable boundaries of behaviour. So much for socialist empowerment. This must constitute a u-turn.

John Stitch, London,

If the members of the gang were described as 'having freckles' or ' being green eyed' I'm sure most editors would have taken that sentence out because it's UTTERLY irrelevant to the story. Why should the gang being black be any more newsworthy?

Sarah, Bristol, England

Someone other than Joe Public gets to feel the enrichment for a change. My bets is that there are now two coppers who wont be quite a pc in the future, providing of course they ever go back to work.

steve, swansea, UK

The liberal left have destroyed this country. Kids lack dicipline because the lefties ensured that if you dicipline your children physically, you get your kids taken from you. If children don't respect their parents, who are they going to respect? Teachers, the police, the law?
You reap what you sow

Vince, Oxford, United Kingdom

I live in South Devon, & to be honest, the place is a mess. The problem is that nobody is used to the law actually being enforced on issues such as litter, dog-mess, graffiti & other such anti-social behaviour. I applaud these police officers for reprimanding the offender, make her pay !!!

Rick, Marldon, UK

Pfft Whatever. We don't need UK style Policing in the US. Our police and our military are two different things. Our Police are here to protect us, not tell us to pick up trash. Thank God we don't have CCTV, that's proving useless in europe anyway... A wonderful waste of money.

Dan, Santa Fe, USA

To the comments here that blame socialism. Have'nt they heard that Britain is now a right wing repressive militaristic state in the grip of extreme capitalism? Thatcher destroyed socialism and new labour is corrupt and right wing. Get your facts right.

kate, Edinburgh, Scotland

Would you gun-toting Americans leave us alone, please?

And can't right-wingers think of anything new to say, other than "PC! PC! PC!" It's getting a little tiresome now.

David, london,

How Sad ...You Brits need to wake up and stop letting the riff raff take over your country...its Only a matter of time Before the UK will fall apart. ...Arm the Police and Let them do their job!.

Spare the Rod and spoil the child...

Adam Sanders, Spring Valley, New York, USA

As a Florida State Trooper I can tell you that people tend to be less aggressive toward police when they are armed. Having a gun is like wearing a seat belt in a car. If you need it and don't have it it's too late to get it. Have a speedy recovery officers!

Philip, Destin, USA

where do I start?

All the Americans, arming police is not the answer. Look at the US.

Arthur D, in my experience they will be very English black people. First gen immigrants in particular tend to know why they left one place and came to another. Please try not to be so xenophobic.

no more space

Richard Musto, London, UK

Those of you that say the police have better things to do would change your mind if your neighborhood was covered in litter. Then you would be complaining about how the police never do anything about it. In what way could a police officer asking someone to clean up after themself ever justify this?

Andrew, Waterloo, USA

people, people. while the incident started with a young female the "Two unarmed police officers who were attacked by a mob of 30 ADULTS AND teenagers were today receiving hospital treatment after being bitten, kicked and punched". This suggests that the problem is not just with our youth.

Pete , London, United Kingdom

To see what civilised nations think about US justice, just look across at the cartoon of Guanotamamo on this very page.

We have no need of US style policing in the UK thank you.

richard mullens, London, Europe

"Bravery in Numbers"... a "Mob" of 30 people felt brave enough to attack 2 Police Officers... "IF" it was a crowd of lets say 5 would they have been so "Brave"? what we see is not only cowardice but a total lack of respect for the law. The solution is to be tough.. but our government lacks the guts!

Chris, Croydon,

Regardless of where you live, if a police officer asks a CHILD to pick up litter (she probably dropped), she should do it. Where is respect and decency? I'd hate to be cop~ it's a dangerous and thankless job.

Kellie, Brea, Ca

For years I have taught my kids that England was the most important country in modern history,the one whose legacy dominates the civilized world today; one power that left behind a positive legacy

Now I would fear to even visit it. England has been destroyed by socialist ideology.

It is to weep

gylman, Toronto, Canada

I used to live in the UK precisely South of the Thames, I can certainly say that I'm glad that I'm back home in Nigeria. I only hope that what i've being reading are somehow exaggerated.. but then 21 deaths all teenage and quite a number gang related how much of that can you exaggerate.

tolu, lagos, Nigeria

Send out a couple SAS hand to hand combat instructors in police uniforms, with squad of riot police concealed in a van nearby. Have the SAS just hang out in general area and see what develops. Also use SAS who are verticaly impaired, you know, small of stature.

Dan Rignall, Leesburg, USA

The Pope has been in Sydney with thousands of Pilgrims,crime is down and the city is bursting with goodwill.I think crime in London is due to the lack of opportunity and work ethic, the police should leave cleaning the streets to others and concentrate on catching crooks.

Percy, Sydney, Australia

30-odd (possibly armed) against 2 (unarmedf)? How brave...

LN, Bristol,

Looks like anarchy is well on its way in the UK....unbelievable!
Time to get tough, arm the polie.

Bjorn, Europe,

Tom Clark, Cambridge, UK - you smugly criticise AG from New York but at least the thug in NY won't do it again and won't create any more victims. The social dregs that did this to the policemen in Croydon will get a slap on the wrist then be freed to commit other crimes (but not in leafy Cambridge)

Mel, London,

“Whilst we would never use the word 'mob' which is an inflammatory word ..." What? Calling them a "mob" might cause them to hurt someone? Too late to talk pc. Guess they were just "a large unruly crowd" or since they were breaking the law, "a gang of criminals." Check any dictionary. That's a "MOB"

Jeff, Oregon, USA

Please... no guns. If the police start carrying, then it won't be knife attacks that we will be complaining about in England. What England needs is harsher punishment for those that commit offences not more weapons for those who enforce the law.

Charlie Wilson, Mile End, London, UK

Paul Taylor writes: 'The two officers should be disciplined for allowing such a trivial matter to get out of control. Surely they have more important things to do than start fights with members of the public over littering.'
Paul, are you for real?

Mary, London,

The girl's side of it. There is very little chance that anything she had to say would warrent attacks on a law enforcement officer.

Dwayne, Evansville, USA

We all have our problems in every city but do not leave your officers unprotected on the streets. Let them use their nightsticks quckly without ridiculous prosecution or give them guns. They are defenseless in the UK.

Ed, Philadephia, PA, USA

The story was more than a bit vague as to the ethnicicity of the thugs.

Were these typical young Engishmen or imports?

What is the rest of the story?

It seems as if what passes for a justice system has become victim-unfriendly and thus encourages gratuitous violence.

The fruits of PC?

Arthur Downs, Camden-Wyoming DE, USA

Obviously the police need to act with sensitivity.

I have seen the police act in an obnoxious and officious way towards young people - for instance those who put their feet on a train seat.

The police should have something more important to do than dealing with littering.

richard mullens, London, Europe

I suspect that none of the perpetrators are from Croydon itself. More than likely they are from the surrounding areas of Lambeth or Thornton Heath. Could it be that the upsurge in violent youth crime across South London is connected to Kens policy of 'free' travel for all under 16s on TFL routes?.

pat, south london, uk

the officer was probably disrespectin init. the UK has transformed from one of the most creative, civil, respected countries on earth into a degenerate state where an entire generation of kids are growing up to fail. labour and their PC liberal welfare state has completely destroyed what the UK was

Alex, London, England

You keep your guns IAN, RICH etc ..if you arm your police with guns, the criminals will ALL carry guns..no way.. you keep them.
The British police are very efficient at the best of times, but one thing i will say for the US is the fact that their law system do have good punishments not like here,

King, Leicester, England

Considering the rapid escalation of violence in England, having unarmed officers seems more historical than practical. If one of the officers was stabbed and killed would arming them make more sense? Please arm these poor policeman who are trying to make your county more safe for all.

Chris, Winnipeg, Canada

You Brits are a strong lot. When you get tired enough of being pushed around by thugs, you'll do something about it.
Your neighbors across the pond are rooting for you --

Bill, Tampa, Florida, U.S.A.

See, this is why the british police should pack some heat. At least a tazer.

Brian, Cincinnati, USA

Can the ex Croydoners stop cussing the Town. I've lived for the past 15 years, never been mugged, abused etcetra, Well got some racist name calling from some chavs who were obviously from neighbourly Chavvy West Wickham.
Apart frm the highest Council Tax ( govt fault)
Croydon is a wonderful Town

Max Patel, Croydon, Surrey

That is why here in America our cops carry guns. A couple of 9mm with 15 round clips would of worked quite nicely angaints the mob that attempted to murder the police officers.

Ian, Oregon,

Does anyone else see the irony of such violence taking place in one of Europe's PC Socialized Societies where all ills are supposed to be cured by Government programs. Take heed USA Left Wing Liberals.

Penny Henneman, Bridgewater, MA, USA

Sounds like the officers in question should of been armed with handgun. I'd be hesitant to be in law efforcement without a weapon, the department (police) should take better care of it officers.
I wish the officers a speedy recovery.

Rich, Chicago, USA

Guns... the cause of and solution to all of lifes probles... or is that alcohol (can't remember).

Ian, Oregon,

AG, New York- "A guy tried that on my street last night, the NYPD officer shot him dead."

Well, some teenagers tried it here yesterday, and everybody stayed alive.

So, it looks like our police force are much more successful than yours. No guns necessary.

Tom Clark, Cambridge, UK

Police without guns?? ....get ready for more of the same.

TJF, Texas, USA

I am an American who has lived in England for 7 years now. This incident over picking up litter is not a rare occurance and I can pretty much guarantee that the officers did nothing more than POLITELY request that the litter be picked up. There is no respect for law in this country. USA, here I come

Cindy, Newcastle, UK

This show us all what new labour has done, far too soft, the poor police on the street,the kids have guns and knifes! Why don't we all wake up and turn the tables. Changes the laws give the police guns, and let them use them! At the end of the day if you do nothering wrong, you don't have to worry.

oliver, colchester,

riotous or disorderly crowd of people or mass of common people. When does the word mob become inflammatory? Unless if you mean in the informal sense, a gang of criminals.
A criminal is a criminal no matter what. They should be punished for their actions. Try doing that in Rio and see what happens.

Howard, Rio, Brazil

I'm not familiar with renting in England but, what I would do if it is legal is start talking to landlords in the area and ask them to raise the rents. Make the place too expensive for the degenerate welfare self righteous that caused the violence to live there. Just an idea.

chris, lakewood, US

Rob from from California... CCTV does not take away privacy rights. If you are in public then you are in public, and if you are not breaking the law then the cameras should not be of any concern to you, simple as that. they are to catch criminals, without them crime would be worse

Stephen, Annapolis, America

I find it hard to believe the amount of rationalizing that's going on here - i suspect it's repressed terror at what british society is becoming. There is no excuse, repeat, no excuse, for a mob to attack two unarmed police officers.
You'll soon run out of liberal excuses when your the victim.

christopher rivers, lowbanks,

Dave, Los Angeles, Do you think we respect you for carrying a gun? No we fear you. the USA the now merge the police with the military and it is against our constitution. Amalites, robots bombs, and other facist military traits.We are not all thugs but you always hold you gun ready to shoot us.

Richard, davis, California

Put a gun in their hand. Then see who attacks them...

Doug, Colorado Springs,

I think this is disgusting, an example should be made of all the people involved in attacking our police, also I thought it was an offence not to go to a policemans aid if he was in trouble,were there no passers by to help these poor lads

Ann Mercer, Orpington, U,k

travis in pittsburg, it's very likely that is indeed the whole story.People here have no respect or fear of police whatsoever.I'm from S.Calif,and I remember most people straightening up when they just saw a cop,but here,they're just laughable to the majority.Maybe cause punishments are laughable

Beverly, Gwynedd, Wales

So Travis.. you think the Police did more than 'ask her to pick up litter'? Knowing that several CCTV cameras were on them, and with witnesses all around, the Police Officers maybe intimidated or threatened a teenage girl? Yeah, right- you obviously haven't been to Europe.

Nick, Nottingham,

The whole world is laughing at a bit louder than usual.
What has our "leader" got to say about this?

Bob Greenaway, Tamarin, Mauritius

We used to live near Croydon - I worked there.

It was a reasonable place back in the late 60s early 70s.

Now it is ghastly - as a result our whole family have moved away.

Going back we see it has been wrecked and is a dangerous place.

It has been taken over by 'others' moving in.

Annie , Bath, UK

Perhaps the pressure of constantly being under surveillance by untold cameras, having most of your personal rights removed for the better good, and incompetent PCSO's that will let children drown is finally getting to the good people of the UK? Expect this to happen when people are oppressed.

Rob, California, USA

This makes me furious. I live in LA and it is worse here. I confronted some kids for littering. Later, I asked my local officer what I should do. He said, "don't say anything, they may have a gun." Two weeks ago a man was shot and killed for yelling at some kids that were grafittiing his fence

andy, Los Angeles, USA

This would considered a complete abomination by American law enforcement and the embarrassment overwhelming; but instances like this are practically non-existent in the US due to the fact that we (I'm a cop) carry lethal weapons and operate in a culture or veil of intimidation...feigned or real.

Dave, Los Angeles,

The two officers should be disciplined for allowing such a trivial matter to get out of control. Surely they have more important things to do than start fights with members of the public over littering.

Paul Taylor, London, UK

i expect this time the police will attempt to apprehend and punish the aggressors. In my experience, when this happens to a member of the public in South London the police are worse than useless. Mostly, Criminals know they have a license to do as they wish.. The laws of the land are unenforced

frank, slough, england

Britain has reached the stage where not even the police are elieved and doubts arise as to their motives and methods. If teenagers can hold the country's streets to ransom then what hope the common man?

Glad I live in a civilised country with virtually 0 street crime!

Edwin, Bucharest,

Why is it that everyone wants to blame the parents??? The teens knew right from wrong and so did the adults (what we should blame their parents?) that were there. Everyone wants to blame someone else suck it up you are responsible for U.

Mike L, Stockton,

I'll offer odds of 25-1 that not a single one of the mob (sorry to be 'inflammatory') that attacked the police officers will go to jail.

Hibbo, Dundee,

Time to arm the police. Try to attack an NYPD officer and see how far that gets you. A guy tried that on my street last night, the NYPD officer shot him dead.

AG, New York, USA

The more the rights the govt takes from citizens, the more cameras it installs, the more a part of your life they demand ownership of... the more this will happen.

This wasn't about litter. It was about rage.

One was or another, the UK's youth are going to undo the world of their parent's owners.

thorn, Cincinnati,

What on earth were the police doing, trying to enforce the law. Don't they know that laws in the UK are there to protect the lawless, especially if you are from an ethnic minority.
I would expect the human rights lawyers to now fight for a compensation claim against the police.
Glad I left ...!

Gareth Jones, Dússeldorf, Germany

This country is going down the pan - can we please have prison boats where people like this can be put for the rest of their lives and forgotten about?

Stone, London,

Lock them up and bring their parents to justice too! The kids need to learn that they can't walk around intimidating and attacking anyone they feel like. I say bring in laws like here in the US.

Aaron, Sacramento,

There should punish each and every one of the 30 thugs but nothing will happen.....

Matty, Bath, England

There is a complete lack of respect for authority in this country. The children and their parents should be punished. If they're on benefits, take it away. I have had enough of this society we live in. Time to get tough.

Rod, London,

I live in the US and if you don't follow a police order you are likely to get, at best, arrested in handcuffs, at worst, "tazed". The girl should have done what she was told and there wouldn't have been any further problems.

David Jones, Cincinnati, USA

That why the British police need to be armed. Texas police would never suffer such indignity as representatives of the law abiding citizens.

David Stivers, Houston, USA

All I can say to the officers involved is 'do you want a crime reference number.?'

That's the only help the Police give the rest of us when this happens - and this is what it leads to in the end..

Dan Farnban, Rugby, Uk

One thing you can be sure of is that we are not hearing the "whole story"! People dont react that way without being provoked, , the cops did more than "ask her to pick up the litter". Police forces all around the world are increasingly violent towards nonviolent citizens.

travis, pittsburg, USA

Ah, yes. The cost of socially enlightened laws and courts. Well, they are /your/ politicians, /your/ newsies, and /your/ judges. I'm glad I live in such a primitive and unenlightened country, it's much safer and civilized over here.

Phillep Harding, Shakan Strait, Alaska, USA

Arm your police officers. They have no real means of protection from this type of violene or these thugs. I realize that this was not necessary in times past, but your society, like all others, has changed and the level of violence you are experiencing requires drastic measures.

Cynthia, Denver, USA

After having recently completed 10 years service as a front-line Police Officer....... I am SO glad I took the decision to move, my young family to France. Safety & security in the UK is doomed. And I have seen the degeneration of society first hand. Believe me, it looks extremely bleak. Good luck.

Jez Dillon, Bristol,

This is NOT about being 'Black'. It is about being violent and lawless. Please do not belittle this crime by making it into a presumed issue of racism.

Lu, Norwich, Norfolk

It looks as if we now have the society all the do gooders wanted for themselves while the spineless many sat back and let it happen. I like the comment, we don't like to call them a mob, what should we call them, a religious gathering? I can't believe they were all black either. Not possible.

Steve, London, UK

The solution to the current problems of immigration, youth crime etc etc is simple. All british people leave the country and go to one of the other anglosphere countries where you will be welcomed and treated with respect. In modern Britain white english people are treated as 3rd class citizens.

J Roberts, Manchester, UK

Our family used to go shopping in Croydon - We haven't for a few years now, there are gangs of kids who make the whole place very intimidating most with their faces covered. It is shame the place has gone so downhill....

Chris, London, UK

Chris of Slough -you want to hear the girl's side of the story - well go and ask her. But don;t argue with her or you may get attacked.

Ian, Bristol,

Why has this country have so much 'pond life' waliking the streets (Sebastian, Windsor, uk)

Why? - SIMPLE - because during the 70's 'goody two shoes' social policy makers came out with stupid laws banning corporal punishment. Now society, a generation later, is bearing the fruits of stupid laws

Sam (expat), Michigan, USA

'Even if the report didn't say they were black... I would have guessed' is a common sentiment but the reason 'they often don't' mention colour is because non-black perpetrated crime is bad but black perpetrated crime represents evil incarnate. I'm sick of being demonised because of colour.

Marie, London,

Sad to say this type of behaviour became almost inevitable when parents found themselves afraid to clip their kids round the ear for misbehaving due to fear of prosecution for child abuse.

MM, BSE,

This is what you get from letting social do-gooders rule this country. These brats and others like them should be put in their place, punished and have all so-called 'rights' withdrawn. Rights and privileges have to be earned and belong only to people who know how to behave. Plainly they do not.

SA, Monmouth,

When I growing up, if I disrepected an elder, nevermind the police, my dad/mom would have smacked into the next week. Nowdays, in Britain, parents land up in court for disciplining their children. Have we all gone crazy? Bring back corporal punishment and teach these blasted kids some respect!!!

Neil, London, UK

parents shoul be responsible for their children, and this law that prevents hiting children is nonsense and they know that, if some kid hits me should i just let him hit me more because if i hit him i am in trouble? it's stupid i have the right to protect myself.

i.c., chiswick,

Well,well,well and to think that the politically correct disasters have finally reached your fair Isles.We here in South Africa have "reported" murders of 19,000 per year.You don't even know if you will come home from buying your bread & milk at the local shop.

Rob, Johannesburg, South Africa

Was she asked or told and how was she asked and told?

bernard, Hebden Bridge,

Regardless as to how she was asked or told that is no justification for 30 thugs to attack 2 policemen

Michael, Lincoln,

The Govt have spent over 10 years "sowing the seed" with PC and a whole host of other ridiculous polices into this nation, now there reaping what they have sown. It all comes home to roost......

debra steadman, Leicester, UK

There is no other side. The officer asked/told her to pick up her trash. She picked it up and deliberately dropped it down in front of him. He asked/told again. Her friend starts mouthing off. Why is it so hard to understand that these girls were both wrong? What about the adults involved in this??

L, Chatt, TN, USA

Im just so glad we moved away from Croydon in 1995, it was because of this kind of minsless violence then and clearly its on the increase.

Tigs, Bristol,

Useless kids from useless parents!

John Davies, Calgary, Canada

sorry but blame the parents its a disgrace parents have to act grown up it is a shame to our nation

Jamie, Dagenham, England

The police should have either arrested the girl straight away or at least issued her with an on the spot fine (even though I doubt she would have ever paid it).
Littering is an anti social habit, which should have no place in a modern clean enviornment society.
Teach the kids when they are young!!

Arvin, Lon, GB

If you assault a police officer in the United States you would be in JAIL not out on bail. You also would be facing seroius charges.

Richard , Birmingham,

Over the years, the physical requirements for PC's have been weakened or removed for equality and PC (the other kind) reasons. Now, some Officers are not fit-for-purpose.

When in desperate need of an Officer, do you want one built like a brick out-house, or one that has to 'admin' the cuffs on?

Mike Hart, London, England

i lived in Thornton Heath for nearly 30 years till 2001 . My wife would travel to work in central Croydon by bus and was intimidated daily on the bus by gangs of school age black girls , especially at the end of the school day. No-one ever dared challenge the gangs/ groups. Eventually she was mugged

pete, ludlow, england

i want to see a move back to the days when if someone swore or disrespected the police, they would get a trunchon on the head first rather than the laughable "calm down please, please dont sware at me again......." authority is laughable and cocky youth plays on this fact.

sad world!

James, st austell, cornwall

We have seen nothing yet. We have allowed a completely flawed ideology to dominate our political culture for a couple of generations and now the children, brought up within it, are entering ‘adulthood’. As we are so European now, no doubt we will have a European style backlash and go through a period of repression.

James J, London, England

one of the most civilized, modern and progressive country in the world what has it come to now ....!!
i feel sorry for the country for the people for the nation

S, london,

It's time for society to collectively lose patience with this sort of behaviour, with political correctness, with the long list of excuses that well-meaning people wheel out each time this kind of thing happens. Punish these people. Very hard. We are in a struggle between civilisation and barbarism.

David Pritchard, Madrid, Spain

This kind of behaviour makes me so angry!!
Children need to be taught a respect for authority and it is disgusting that this sort of behaviour goes on. I really really hope this 'gang' gets taught a lesson, before the next time they attack someone they use knives and guns.

CC, Croydon,

Was she asked or told and how was she asked and told?

bernard, Hebden Bridge,

Welcome to England 2008

jim mccallum, calgary, canada

Chris, I am afraid there is probably not more to it, just disrespect for the authorities.

sab, London, London

There is NO reason/excuse for that kind of behaviour. Totally unacceptable. Differences of opinion are fine but violence never solves anything.

Zohreh, Sidcup, UK

ferral children...

richard, Chislehurst, kent

Why, Chris from Slough? Would "the girl's side of it" possibly justify an attack where the victims were outnumbered 15-1? Or maybe your view is that dropping litter isn't actually that bad, they're only teenagers, the police are too heavy handed, they should have known better, etc.
Give me a break!

C.M., London, UK

Why? What can she possibly say to defend:
a. Dropping litter.
b. Inciting her friends to attack the cops?

Alisdair, Monchengladbach, GE

Direct blame clearly lies with the people involved, but teenagers solely can't be blamed for these actions alone. I say this as the environment they were brought up in has direct influence upon them. If a child is exposed to violence and taught it's the only way, then they'll believe it. Even so...

Ben, IOM,

Chris, Slough, UK - you are a disgrace. There are always two sides to a story, but whatever the other side there would be nothing to excuse that sort to attack.

Lloyd, UK,

Chris from Slough: what possible 'side' can there be to attacking a police officer? There are no sides, no excuses.

Ian, Sheffield, UK

And what is Boris doing about this apart from taking his substanial salary every month?

kim, London,

This is a victory for NuLabours "law and order" policies. For years the police have been promoting the interests of yobs over the law-abiding and sending them the unmistakeable message that they are free to do just as they please. This incident is simply proof that these policies are working.

Martin, Newmarket, Suffolk

I was born in Croydon, and still live here - and am very proud of my home town !...
As is most often the case, trouble-makers and those who spoil the town's name are not Croydon residents but come from other areas.
Police officers need to enforce the law and should be fully supported by all.

Rory, Croydon, England

During this government's disastrous term in office we have been told that children have equivalent status in society to adults, and therefore nobody is allowed to discipline them or give them orders. This behaviour is the direct result of that catastrophic policy.

Jacques Francis, Westcott, UK

Another clear example of British society increasingly out of control. This breakdown is obviously directly linked to the lengthy undermining of both police powers and educational discipline. No doubt the 'rights' of the aggressors will be trumpeted by the politically correct establishment

Simon, Birmingham,

Why has this country have so much 'pond life' waliking the streets?

Sebastian, Windsor, uk

When they start attacking the cops then that really is the end of civilisation. This needs to be stamped on.

Craig Ross, Glasgow, UK

When the public don't fear attacking a policeman, you know society is in a very very dark and bad place.

Arthur, Newcastle,

Teenagers in Britain have absolutely no respect for authority - and why should they? They've never needed to. They know their "rights".

I'm sure the officers will be discplined for being too rough and the attackers will get off with a slap on the wrist and a big fat cheque.

John F, London,

Make an example of this child. Make her report to the police station every day during the school holidays and ensure she picks up litter every day for the whole period. Teach her a lesson and every other person that drops litter.

kirk, Rotherham, UK

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned that the facist police officers were infringing on the girls human rights... maybe next time the police should take her to an untidy area and show the impact of her actions.

[/sarcasm]

Gary, Manchester, UK

Oh my God. This is disgraceful.

Anna, London,

There has to be more to this story. I'd like to hear the girl's side of it.

Chris, Slough, UK